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SuperSpike
Contributor
Contributor

vSphere 5 Licensing

I took a minute to read the licensing guide for vSphere 5 and I'm still trying to pull my jaw off the floor. VMware has completely screwed their customers this time. Why?

What I used to be able to do with 2 CPU licenses now takes 4. Incredible.

Today

BL460c G7 with 2 sockets and 192G of memory = 2 vSphere Enterprise Plus licenses
DL585 G7 with 4 sockets and 256G of memory = 4 vSphere Enterprise Plus licenses

Tomorrow

BL460c G7 with 2 sockets and 192G of memory = 4 vSphere Enterprise Plus licenses
BL585 G7 with 4 sockets and 256G of memory = 6 vSphere Enterprise Plus licenses


So it's almost as if VMware is putting a penalty on density and encouraging users to buy hardware with more sockets rather than less.

I get that the vRAM entitlements are for what you use, not necessarily what you have, but who buys memory and doesn't use it?

Forget the hoopla about a VM with 1 TB of memory. Who in their right mind would deploy that using the new license model? It would take 22 licenses to accommodate! You could go out and buy the physical box for way less than that today, from any hardware vendor.

Anyone else completely shocked by this move?

@Virtual_EZ
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rjb2
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

your model is definitely an improvement on the new entitlements that are definitely too low.

One of the things that still doesn't make sense to me is the why they charge 3X as much as Standard for an Enterprise license, but you only get a mere 8GB of vRAM. The proportions are out of whack.

If RAM is going to become the main driver of pricing, then you should get some value back in that area. I don't think there is any future in Enterprise if there isn't some adjustment.

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ats0401
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Enthusiast

Bilal,

This is the first sensible post you've had on the subject! Smiley Happy

I like your proposal, better then VMware's current licensing for 5.

Those numbers along with HA capacity, etc I believe would actually cover most as VMware is claiming.

But, I still feel there needs to be a road map for the future covering Moore's Law and/or the option to purchase vRAM entitlements WITHOUT SnS.

I hope VMware is listening and will spend the time and effort to re-look at their licensing instead of trying to sugarcoat what they have.

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JustinL3
Contributor
Contributor

Or it needs to be based on vRAM Utilized (not Allocated).  If this is “My Cloud” and I own it and I want to over-subscribe a little vRAM on each VM to make my own job easier, I should be able to do that without running into a limit.  A VM with an active vRAM Utilization of say 1GB is going to Utilize that much vRAM whether I allocated it 1.5GB, or 2GB, or 3GB of vRAM.  The concept of right-size is great, but until there’s a non-disruptive way to right-size VMs, it’s not practical to try and manage 2000+ VMs to a vRAM Allocation model.  And on top of that, application teams, vendors and consultants may be skeptical of placing and supporting their application on top of virtualization if I’m telling them “well, I know your requirement is 8GB RAM; but you’re only going to need 2GB….”.

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allenb1121
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In my current hardware, I am at 128GB per CPU. While 96GB per CPU would be a bit more palatable, VMware still needs to base their licensing on currently available hardware, if they insist on continuing with this sort of licensing model. PowerEdge R910s are available with 256GB per CPU. We use R815s, with 128GB per CPU. If I didn't have a need for this memory, I would purchase the machine. Sorry but the argument of just needed to license what we use is absurd. It wouldn't be quite so absurd, if it wasn't for the fact that in 4.x, all of the memory is free to use with one license per CPU.

Allen B.

Allen Beddingfield

Systems Engineer

The University of Alabama

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bilalhashmi
Expert
Expert

Or it needs to be based on vRAM Utilized (not Allocated). 

Utilized RAM will flicker up and down and will be even more unpredictable in my opinion. So during night I only need x number of licenses but during the day I need more beacuse now my servers are taxed more. This is why I think vRAM based on allocation is a better option.

Follow me @ Cloud-Buddy.com

Blog: www.Cloud-Buddy.com | Follow me @hashmibilal
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Full_Halsey
Contributor
Contributor

I am going to reiterate my previous statements that VMware should have a straight one for one, no fee upgrade path for current SnS PAID customers, regardless of the new licensing model. Require a different licensing fee as new licensing is purchased. And, have a "FAIR" fee schedule that reflects the current real world hardware where, on average, most servers coming out of the factory are 2 CPU, 256GB.

Here's a wild concept, take care of the customers you have and they will repay you with more purchases and brand loyalty.

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twindude
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

@cloud buddy

if you post your info here more will read... because

micorsoft just informed me that i can't use tabs in IE 8 - they want me to license them differently now that i have it installed.. so i only have one "pain" to look through!

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JustinL3
Contributor
Contributor

Bilal wrote:

Or it needs to be based on vRAM Utilized (not Allocated). 

Utilized RAM will flicker up and down and will be even more unpredictable in my opinion. So during night I only need x number of licenses but during the day I need more beacuse now my servers are taxed more. This is why I think vRAM based on allocation is a better option.

Follow me @ Cloud-Buddy.com

Right, it would flucuate, but there would still be high marks every day that you design, manage and license towards expected peak utilization (again, not allocation), just like you do with physical hardware today.  You don't buy a server to run at night-time utilization.  You buy a larger server to run your day-time loads.

Licensing on a vRAM Utilized model allows VMware to be paid for what we're Activly using but it allows us the flexability to over-alloate vRAM a bit to make managing a large environment easy and not have to worry about right-sizing every single VM in the environment to try and stay within our vRAM allocation.

Just a thought I'm throwing out there.  I think we all agree the current thought on the table from VMware isn't working; at least at the limits they've choosen.

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sliptrap
Contributor
Contributor

It needs to be based on pRAM with 64GB min per license. That’s the only acceptable solution to this mess in my opinion. Virtual configs vary so drastically from guest to guest that basing licensing on a virtual resource is just asinine. Most OS's won’t utilize all the vRAM you give them but if you only give them the bare minimum they will choke.

I understand the purpose and reasoning behind the license change and I don’t disagree that a change is warranted BUT the implementation is a huge failure and only serves to screw over VMware’s customers. We replaced EMC for this EXACT reason and if VMware continues down this road I have absolutely no problem switching to another product that doesn’t have as many bells and whistles.

The Marines have landed and the situation is well in hand.
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wdroush1
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

twindude wrote:

@cloud buddy

if you post your info here more will read... because

micorsoft just informed me that i can't use tabs in IE 8 - they want me to license them differently now that i have it installed.. so i only have one "pain" to look through!

No, but that's fine though, Microsoft realizes that 95% of users don't use tabs, so their price for Windows wont change.

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wdroush1
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

Bilal wrote:

Or it needs to be based on vRAM Utilized (not Allocated). 

Utilized RAM will flicker up and down and will be even more unpredictable in my opinion. So during night I only need x number of licenses but during the day I need more beacuse now my servers are taxed more. This is why I think vRAM based on allocation is a better option.

Follow me @ Cloud-Buddy.com

Because we never routinely spin up and down VMs all day long on our dev environments, nope.

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sergeadam
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

JustinL3 wrote:

Bilal wrote:

Or it needs to be based on vRAM Utilized (not Allocated). 

Utilized RAM will flicker up and down and will be even more unpredictable in my opinion. So during night I only need x number of licenses but during the day I need more beacuse now my servers are taxed more. This is why I think vRAM based on allocation is a better option.

Follow me @ Cloud-Buddy.com

Right, it would flucuate, but there would still be high marks every day that you design, manage and license towards expected peak utilization (again, not allocation), just like you do with physical hardware today.  You don't buy a server to run at night-time utilization.  You buy a larger server to run your day-time loads.

Licensing on a vRAM Utilized model allows VMware to be paid for what we're Activly using but it allows us the flexability to over-alloate vRAM a bit to make managing a large environment easy and not have to worry about right-sizing every single VM in the environment to try and stay within our vRAM allocation.

Just a thought I'm throwing out there.  I think we all agree the current thought on the table from VMware isn't working; at least at the limits they've choosen.

Any model based on utilization won't fly. Especially not when we're talking about numbers like that.

I can't present ESX as an option and not be able to give a fixed, predictable number for licensing.

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JDLangdon
Expert
Expert

Charles Braun wrote:

This whole situation kinda makes me think, what if a backup vendor came along and sold you a product to backup all your servers (50 servers and total data of 1TB).  Then all of a sudden 1 day they told you, "Sorry, you are only allowed to backup a pooled capacity of 500GB and now you must buy 50 more 10GB server licenses for $300 each if you wish to backup your entire datacenter."

I take it you've never used an IBM product like TSM or SVC.

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Dracolith
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

My question to VMware: is  what _is_ VRAM?  Is this the amount you configure a VM for  in   VM > Edit Settings?

Do powered off/suspended VMs count as using VRAM?

If I use VMware FT,  does both the primary and secondary VMs count against my VRAM usage?

Is VRAM the amount you've set  resource pool/VM reservations too?

Is this the average of the sum of "Active Memory"  values  of all your VMs?

How does this work if you have standalone hosts not managed by a vCenter?

Is the VMware software going to start powering off VMs or refusing to power on VMs,

if the vRAM license limit is exceeded?

My other question to VMware is: What exactly are the Enhancements in vSphere5   that cause the new version to be an improvement

for users DESPITE the adverse license changes?

What are the enhancements in vSphere5 that justify the additional cost and improve :

* vHypervisor deployments

* vSphere Essentials datacenter deployments

* vSphere Essentials Plus datacenter deployments

* vSphere Standard datacenter deployments

VMFS and vMotion improvements don't really count, as those are minor incremental improvements,

that are helpful, but not necessary --  they don't make anything possible that was impossible before.

Memory dense environments are surely common, with new hardware, and cheap RAM, getting

even cheaper  per GB. Now VMware is in certain cases making the software cost of buying more

RAM to use immediately greater than the hardware cost.

Original selling point of VMware software is lower costs.

Anything getting in the way of that must be a bug or defect (whether intentional or not).

VMware marketing sold vSphere with calculators showing the competition's costs were higher due to more hardware required,

resulting in higher license and hardware costs for competing hypervisors.

Now we have VMware in a new vLicensing scheme requiring users to pay  licensing _as if they had_ more hardware.

Surely if a new version is more expensive or restrictive than a previous version  you have a concrete justification for that and we expect that to reflect something  _very_ good has already been added to the new version to make it so much more valuable  than the previous version was.  

If the "compelling features"  are not created yet, then DELAY any price increase, until they are added, and the case has been made.

Price increases are a misfeature. Is the lack of new features to justify it an indication from VMware  that vSphere

is already as good as it can be,  and the only direction from here is down?

Something with huge benefits for a majority of environments,  to justify all the new costs.

Something far better than incremental updates/bugfixes/minor performance increases.

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JDLangdon
Expert
Expert

twindude wrote:

i right-size to VMware vRAM rules for cost and an application vendor (SQL, Oracle, SAP, Exchange, ERPs) says different, who wins?

i have to pay attention to the app vendor so my business can run and I can pay VMware for my current license!

Oracle is a different discussion altogether.  They've been screwing their customers for years over virtualization licenses.

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JDLangdon
Expert
Expert

Bilal wrote:

Guys,

I have been reading through this thread and after talking to multiple people in the industry I have proposed the following proposal for vSphere 5 licensing and onwards. Yes, I am a vExpert and I try to be unbiasd as I can be and I want you to know that I have done my best to be as unbiased as possible in my last post. Please read and give me your thoughts on this.

http://www.cloud-buddy.com/?p=413

Sorry, I've already read one of your articles already and you are as one-sided as a Fox news cast.  Besides, if you have something to add, add it here.  This is where the discussion is.

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JDLangdon
Expert
Expert

Bilal wrote:

Keep in mind 1:4 ratio means 4 VMs per core, which I think is reasonable.

No 4:1 means 4VM's per core and if this is reasonable, why is VMware telling people that they should be able to get 8:1?

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bilalhashmi
Expert
Expert

No 4:1 means 4VM's per core and if this is reasonable

You are right about my inverse numbers.. I have updated that.. Thanks!

why is VMware telling people that they should be able to get 8:1?

That has been true for the previous versions. And if they have enough vRAM they can still do that in the vSphere 5. Besides most 8:1 are VDI envirnoments and the VDI lic will have unlimited vRAM. However I am not a 100% on the upgrade path from the previous VDI version.

Follow me @ Cloud-Buddy.com

Blog: www.Cloud-Buddy.com | Follow me @hashmibilal
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MindTheGreg
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Enthusiast

JDLangdon wrote:

Charles Braun wrote:

This whole situation kinda makes me think, what if a backup vendor came along and sold you a product to backup all your servers (50 servers and total data of 1TB).  Then all of a sudden 1 day they told you, "Sorry, you are only allowed to backup a pooled capacity of 500GB and now you must buy 50 more 10GB server licenses for $300 each if you wish to backup your entire datacenter."

I take it you've never used an IBM product like TSM or SVC.

EMC Avamar works like you described. Brocade fibre switches do per port licensing. You have the ports, but you must licese each one to use it.

Set-Annotation -CustomAttribute "The Impossible" -Value "Done and that makes us mighty"
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sergeadam
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Enthusiast

Bilal wrote:

No 4:1 means 4VM's per core and if this is reasonable

You are right about my inverse numbers.. I have updated that.. Thanks!

why is VMware telling people that they should be able to get 8:1?

That has been true for the previous versions. And if they have enough vRAM they can still do that in the vSphere 5. Besides most 8:1 are VDI envirnoments and the VDI lic will have unlimited vRAM. However I am not a 100% on the upgrade path from the previous VDI version.

Follow me @ Cloud-Buddy.com

And it will be even more true in 18 months, when Moore's law doubles our computing power yet again.

For years, VMWare has been pushing density. It's not unusual to allocate vRAM according to app vendor specs. Then notice only 20% being utilized. licensing vRAM is punishing those of us who've been following recommentations. Those of us who've argued for spending $$$$ on VMWare as opposed to Hyper_V BECAUSE of overcommitment and superior memory management.

For the first time since I've started recommending ESX, I'm glad I'm not the one that made the purchasing decision. 

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