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Elverdane
Contributor
Contributor

Realtek family unsupported?

I understand that this issue have been discussed again and again but.... I still can't see why the worlds most common NIC brand isn't supported.

Allmost any common motherboard is equipped with some kind of nic from realtek, that beeing 8110/8111/8168/8169

I found in an earlier post, that there has been made a driver for esxi 4 to support the 8169 NIC, but i could not make it work.

Can anyone make an oem.tgz and post it here, with realtek support integrated. Making it possible just to replace the file, in my install ?

Hope VMWARE will support realtec NIC's in near future Smiley Happy

The truth is out there.... and it's called realtek... hehe

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17 Replies
mcowger
Immortal
Immortal

Why aren't they supported? Because they are garbage NICs that simply are never used in servers (literally, I've never seen a server class system sold with one).

the FreeBSD source code has the best comment on them:

"probably the worst PCI ethernet controller ever made", noting that "the

RealTek 8139 PCI NIC redefines the meaning of 'low end.' The 8139

supports bus-master DMA, but it has a terrible interface that nullifies

any performance gains that bus-master DMA usually offers."

--Matt

VCP, vExpert, Unix Geek

--Matt VCDX #52 blog.cowger.us
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Elverdane
Contributor
Contributor

I understand what u say. and i like to take that a small step further....

It's allso a fact that BMW makes better cars than KIA right ? in that case schell should make a gasoline that KIA's cant use, coz they are garbage ????

No. admittedly.. servers don't use realtek's much (if ever) But still it's a commonly used brand of NIC, and it will not make ESXi a bad piece of software if they supported it. For commercial use, I would not recommend the realtek anyways, but for whitebox test systems, and educational use. I can't see why they are not supported. They do support some less professional storage controllers.

So juts becouse You don't like the realtek (as i don't like asus) I don't think it should not be supported.

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DSTAVERT
Immortal
Immortal

ESX(i) is very dependent on the network. While you may be satisfied with a Realtek NIC on your personal workstation Realtek cards do not do well when they are loaded. With several/many Virtual Machines plus the vSphere Client and perhaps storage all using a very low end card you will have problems. Virtual machines crashing because the network can't keep up with demand perhaps. ESX(i) is an Enterprise level OS and it has a relatively short list of supported devices.

-- David -- VMware Communities Moderator
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Elverdane
Contributor
Contributor

I agree that it has no place in production.. But some very lowend storage controllers are supported for whitebox / testing purposes. So why not the realtek nic ?

Well all in all this is beeing a matter of religion.

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DSTAVERT
Immortal
Immortal

Have a look at http://vm-help.com for a supported nic or look through the Hardware Compatibility List. Again, the list of supported hardware is short simply because this is an enterprise OS.

-- David -- VMware Communities Moderator
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cyklop
Contributor
Contributor

I think it's time to add a Realtek network adapters support in ESX

and ESXi. Intel is not a monopolist in this area.

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admin
Immortal
Immortal

Attempted to install ESX 4 on a P7P55-D LX. I will be buy another NIC card tomorrow.

Hugh

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Rumple
Virtuoso
Virtuoso

you will never see realtek support for any vmware bare metal hypervisor products. The reasoning is...they will cause stability problems...and the swme people bitching that their dollar store hardware isn't supprot will also bitch when it crashes.

vmware doesn't write different levels of the product for use in whitebox labs vs enterprise solutions so they are not going to waste their time writing in and working around bad hardware and driver code just because someone doesn't want to buy reliable hardware.

Be like spending the money to add a new lane to every highway so someone can drive their moped at 25mph...

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golddiggie
Champion
Champion

Actually, what you're asking for is to use kia parts inside a BMW and expect BMW to provide full support, warranty coverage, etc after you've done this. AND officially bless people being so moronic to do this.

VMware VCP4

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ninv
Contributor
Contributor

Well, there is a small issue here. VMWare decided to release a free version of ESXi. That's nice but when you make such a decision, you should expect that several people will expect to be able to use it in common hardware like Realtec NICs or ICHx RAID controllers. They don't expect to have to buy a server to try it out at home or at a lab.

IMO, the decision to release a free edition of ESXi was a little hasty, due to pressure by competitors. That seems to be the cause of such complaints. It's nice and very important that VMWare wishes to keep ESXi stable. That should be their major concern anyway. Since they mad the decision to release the free version though, i believe they should handle things a little differently. Instead of letting the tester / enthusiast search the forums, trying to find community-supported versions of the driver and manually install them (which may not be the easiest thing for some people), they could include community released drivers in the standard ESXi setup and just warn the user that this driver is not officially supported by VMWare. They could also provide a description of the possible issues and a link to the community-supported hardware forum and let the community do the work. The last thing could be to create a method to automatically search and dynamically update officially unsupported drivers (or perhaps even supported drivers too) and let the user take the risk of installing them. That would probably solve many complaints.

I've been following the VMWare adventure since they released VMWare v1.0 and from what i've seen from time to time, i've got the impression there is no real appreciation of the power of the community. I don't know if i'm right about this but i do have that feeling. I hope they prove me wrong.

My 2 c.

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golddiggie
Champion
Champion

Free or not is irelevent... What you're looking for would cause countless support requests for a product with none. People, and realtek most likely, would blame VMware for their crappy hardware having issues with the product. Especially when it's so easy to either purchase a system that meets the requirements, or install hardware that does into an existing system. Going to quality Intel or even Broadcom NIC's fills the requirement.

Any time to support a system using realtek networking, it showed how truely 8th class it was. Not even 2nd rate, it was so bad I would disable it and install a card that I know would work (properly) for many, many years. With being able to get Gb NIC's made by Intel for so little money these days (sub $30 in many cases) crying for realtek hardware support from VMware is pointless.

You're looking to run a high performance engine on the cheapest fuel you can find. NOT a smart idea... Then again, that falls in line with the people crying for VMware to support realtek network hardware...

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ninv
Contributor
Contributor

>golddiggie wrote:

>People, and realtek most likely, would blame VMware for their crappy hardware having issues with the product.

>Especially when it's so easy to either purchase a system that meets the requirements, or install hardware that does into an existing system. Going to quality Intel or even Broadcom NIC's fills the requirement.

>You're looking to run a high performance engine on the cheapest fuel you can find. NOT a smart idea... Then again, that falls in line with the people crying for VMware to support realtek network hardware...

Well, i'm not talking about official support for realtek nics. I'm talking about a mechanism to integrate community created and supported drivers into ESXi.

Free or not is irrelevant? I don't think so. There was no chance for many people to even try ESXi until it was released for free. Imagine their excitement and then their disappointment when they realized they would have to purchase extra hardware (especially raid controllers) in order to setup a somewhat safe system that won't be lost after the first HDD failure.

I've been planning to purchase a new PC for several months now and the ability to run ESXi has affected my hardware requirements for it. From what i've seen, if ESXi could run in standard hardware (i.e. Realtec nics and more importantly ICH10 in RAID mode), i wouldn't have to pay double the price for it. I don't necessariy need a high performance system but as i said above, i'd like to have something that won't be lost after the first HDD failure. It seems now i have to pay $300+ for this option, even if the motherboard has it built-in.

We can't have it all you'll say. I know, i just wish we could have a little more...

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JurgenD
Contributor
Contributor

I do not agree with the vision there is limited hardware support.

It makes no sense ESXi fails to install due to the fact, there are Realtek NIC on the motherboard.

If there is low-end hardware, ESXi should give a warning message related to decreased performance, reliability etc

The realtek drivers should be on the ISO and they should be included.

VMware does mention to try out the ESXi technology, so a common developer does use a normal desktop station

to install the software.  If installation fails, this is seen as weakness, and the developer switch to another hypervisor.

So I do recommend to provide all drivers wich are criticial to the installation process.

As to provide a menu option to load additional modules

It makes totally nosense a developer needs to buy a high end server to try this software !

It SHOULD support most hardware.

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DSTAVERT
Immortal
Immortal

VMware provides virtualization quality drivers that are tested to work well in a virtual environment. Manufacturers are free to create and provide drivers specifically for ESX(i). Realtek devices are very low end (cheap) and are included on many, many desktop products that are manufactured to a particular price point. Intel even uses Realtek in their low priced desktop motherboards in spite of the fact that Intel is perhaps the largest maker of Network cards.

They do not function well when called upon to support multiple operating systems. They often fail even in high loads in desktop environments. Please tell me why it would be in VMware's interests to suppport a device that doesn't work well and would cause far more support issues than simply demanding that you have a supported network controller. The Intel desktop NICs work well, are supported, and are quite inexpensive.

-- David -- VMware Communities Moderator
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JurgenD
Contributor
Contributor

I don't think You get the clue.

ESXi is a product, some developers do want to try out on cheap machines.  I do perfectly understand You need quelity NIC's for production servers.

However, a lot do try this out on a cheap PC out of the shelf. Those PC do have SOFTRAID, REALTEK NICS.  Both things which seems not to be supported.

Linux does support this ! So if You make custom drivers for ESXi then You should tweak the linux drivers to be able to run on ESXi.

Not the other way arround, people need to shut down their internal nics and go to run for other cards.

They want to see a running system.  And when they are in comfort with the product, THEN they can switch to high end servers.

It is a nice defend you bring forward, but it is an excuse also ! Not to do.

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J1mbo
Virtuoso
Virtuoso

ESXi can be run within vmware workstation for exactly that purpose.  And in any case, cheap supported hardware is old there - pretty much any GbE intel adapter will do the job, can be had for as little as £10 on eBay, and similarly hardware RAID in the form of Dell's Perc 5i which can go for only £60 or so.

HTH!

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DSTAVERT
Immortal
Immortal

I don't think You get the clue.

I do get the clue. I use supported NICs.

If VMware created drivers to support Realtek devices "you" as the user of ESXi would expect it to work and work well. The Realtek NICs are really really bad. And since Realtek is just a chipmaker even they have no control over how well other manufacturers build NICs using their chips.

There are Realtek drivers available at http://vm-help.com If you are willing to do the work you can run your ESXi installation using Realtek NICs.

-- David -- VMware Communities Moderator
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