Is or will the keyboard issues with ESXi 4.1 get fixed?

[dkpatrick]

I, too, found that with the newest version of ESXi 4.1 I cannot install because the keyboard is unresponsive after getting to the screen where I'd press to install. I am part of the VMware Academy program at a community college and have 10 servers with two KVMs. It's not feasible to switch to USB because of cost. Yet that seems to be the advice everyone is getting: don't use PS2 keyboards, switch to USB.

This strikes me as a fundamental error. The keyboard works fine through the boot process and is dead by the time it asks about installation. It works fine with ESX 4.0. I haven't tried ESX 4.1 yet.

Is this or will this issue be fixed so I can teach classes using ESXi 4.1?

-- Dave Patrick

Instructor

Ohlone College

Fremont, CA

[DSTAVERT]

i have encountered the problem with many operating system / keyboard / host system combinations. Try a different keyboard. Try PS/2 to USB adapters. There are USB Y connectors with 2 PS/2 connectors that work well in some cases.

[dkpatrick]

I appreciate the suggestion and I may just try that. Still, this seems to be a VMware bug and I doubt if customers will expect to find this kind of problem when they upgrade to the new version. If this is a strict limitation, it should be in the product requirements. If it's not, it needs to be fixed.

[DSTAVERT]

I have it happen with XP and 2003 server installs installs on certain computers and certain keyboards. I found trouble with certain KVM cables and servers. Since I seldom install an OS directly to hardware I haven't experienced it in probably a year.

[dkpatrick]

What's frustrating is that all has been working well with ESXi and ESX

3.5. ESX 4.0 works fine as well. I spend an inordinate amount of time

getting a working setup, plus preparing class materials. This just

presents yet another 'issue' which for me is unpaid labor since I am a

part time instructor and get nothing for fixing these kinds of issues.

It's a time sink for me and even though the adapters are not overly

expensive, getting any expense approved and paid is a real problem in

these days of budget 'shrinkage'.

Earlier I had a problem with a couple of CD drives that at the root was

a VMware inconsistency. It would go through the installtion process OK

up to the point where it started loading the VMware kernel for the next

phase of installation. At that point it couldn't read the CD! It was

resolved by replacing the drives since I knew the process worked on a

different brand. For all the times I've installed Linux (literally

hundreds) I've never had these kinds of inconsistencies.

In my classes I express my greatest frustration with VMware: the lack of

information when problems occur. There's no consolidated document that

contains all the error messages with some meaningful analysis. This

makes resolving problems in-class very frustrating. I view this keyboard

issue another manifestation of a company that's growing too fast, paying

not enough attention to quality.

Enough of the venting

[DSTAVERT]

I would file an SR with VMware. If there is a resolvable issue it would be the place to start.

I understand your frustrations. The real problem lies in the vast differences between hardware and vendors and the quality standards within. As a software developer how lax do you make your standards to accommodate the various levels of quality found in that hardware.

[dkpatrick]

Unfortunately the VMware Academies are in a kind of limbo. We're not

paying customers so we don't get access to support. However we do get

access to software and temporary licenses. We have to deal with what we

have in a classroom environment. Last might I had one team getting

"General Process Error", or something of that ilk. What the heck does

that mean and how do I fix it within the hour left in the class? At the

same time I was having a two teams getting Converter errors (unable to

install the agent ...), one team unable to install VMware Tools on

Windows, and another getting a "duplicate name, etc." issue trying to

add a VM to inventory. In none of the cases was the error information

(logs or otherwise) sufficient to readily come up with a solution.

I think the issues I've encountered (USB vs. PS/2, CD drives) really

fall on VMware. They use Linux under the covers and I've tested my

hardware using Linux live CDs and not had any problems. It appears to me

that VMware, in an effort to streamline the underlying Linux distro,

have made questionable driver choices. The software is available but not

implemented by VMware.

My opinion, obviously. But I've spent decades in software development

and management for IBM and others. With startups I've churned out my

fair share of flakey code. But VMware is positioned as the major

provider to corporate America and I just don't see the attention to

detail that large companies demand. On the other hand it DOES mean that

VMware gets beaucoup bucks from support

Thanks for listening. As a matter of interest, the school can't even

afford to go to VMWorld where I could find the audience for my issues!

[DSTAVERT]

Isn't part of the teaching process about understanding the problem and solving issues not just looking up the answers. These forums, the knowledge base, web searches, the documentation, should be part of everyones VMware arsenal. I would hate to just know things. Knowing something is far less useful than understanding something. Understanding leads me to solving a problem when I don't know the solution.

ESX(i) does have a very short list of supported hardware and for good reason. They support business mission critical applications. Windows and Linux are general purpose operating systems and quite large because of it. ESXi is a very specific operating system and hopefully won't become a bloated monster trying to accommodate every piece of hardware. Once you have multiple VMs competing for resources you don't want a flaky piece of hardware to take it all down.

ESXi isn't Linux under the covers. The vmkernel is all VMware and while drivers can be related to Linux they are specific to VMware. The ESX console is based on Redhat but it is not the virtualization layer. It is just a Virtual Machine with some management tools.

[dkpatrick]

--

David Patrick

Message was edited by: Moderator. Personal information removed

[dkpatrick]

FYI, the simple plug-style adapter doesn't work. I don't have the "Y" style adapter in-hand but have one on order. Figuring about $15 apiece, if it works it will wind up costing the school $150.

-- Dave

[bendered]

Just as a note.

I was able to successfully install ESXi 4.1 into a Virtualbox VM. I had the same issue with the keyboard not being recognized. Out of a whim, I tried installing it on Virtualbox 3.2.6 making a few adjustments and found no problems.

When you create the VM, set memory to 2gb, the hard drive to 10gb, I changed the network card to Bridged so I could use the client from my host desktop, then click the advanced option and select the Intel 1000 Server MT card. I also changed the video to 128mb, but I doubt that would hinder anything if it were lower. Walla, no keyboard problems and the install completed fine. you can then do all your configuration changes with no problems.

Maybe VMware can take notes from Virtualbox.

[dkpatrick]

Thank you! That's actually pretty helpful. I did get 10 Y-adapters for

my servers. PS/2 to USB. About $10 each. That worked. Long term,

however, my students expect to run VMs under ESXi. Then I start running

into memory problems because I have a 'hosted' solution (VirtualBox

running on the OS of your choice) with ESXi running as a guest and it,

in turn, running several Windows VMs.

However, for my students who have the hardware (since I believe you

can't virtualize ESX 4.x if it's on a platform that wouldn't run it

directly) this is a viable solution they can try at home.

BTW, ESX 4.1 doesn't have the keyboard problem. It appears to be an ESXi

4.1 bug.

[golddiggie]

I wouldn't use virtualbox to be a platform to run ESX/ESXi within. Either use actual server hardware, or high enough performing workstation class system to run VMware Workstation 7.x and nest ESX/ESXi within that. You will need sufficient RAM to do any nested type solution. More than you would need if you used ESX/ESXi as it's intended to be used.

What hardware are you trying to run/install ESXi onto? How many VM's do you expect students to be able to create/run at a single time?

While I understand your frustration with the hardware not behaving properly with the new release from VMware, I do have to ask if the hardware/configuration you're looking to use is on the HCL for running 4.1. Just because it ran ESX 3.5 and 4.0 is no guarantee it will work 100% with 4.1... That is, unless it's on the HCL for running 4.1 on that hardware configuration.

I've also found KVM type issues can be avoided if you have either HP or Dell servers with their iLO/iLO2 or DRAC controllers in them. With those, you can run the server 'headless' and administrate fully from your desk (once you setup the iLO/iLO2/DRAC controller for your network). I've used this method to install ESX onto Dell servers recently, as well as run post install tasks right from my desk. No need to go back into the server room to make these settings. If you're having issues with the older servers, when it comes time for the school to give you new(er) ones, do everything you can to get ones with hardware in them such as iLO and DRAC... Sometimes you can add the hardware into the servers later, so it's not something that has to be done at build time (it's a good idea though)...

When I took either of my VMware classes, we used the iLO connection to have total control over the physical servers designated for that week's class. For VMware type training, there really is no better option. Well, other than using a nested solution, but that represents additional limitations (unable to install any 64-bit OS within the ESX/ESXi host you create there)... Besides, ESX/ESXi is a 'bare metal hypervisor', not something intended to be run nested.

Network Administrator

VMware VCP4

Consider awarding points for "helpful" and/or "correct" answers.

[dkpatrick]

--

[beaven67]

Same issue here, I upgraded from 4.0 to 4.1 and the system works ok but I'm not able to use the local keyboard at all! Quite frustrating after an upgrade to find this issue! If anyone has a work around please let me know..

Thanks,

Pat

[dkpatrick]

Nobody from VMware has expressed an interest in this issue to me and I

don't have the means of submitting a support request. I wound up getting

the following from Amazon:

"TRENDnet USB to PS/2 Converter TU-PS2 (Blue)"

and it works fine. $9.50 before shipping and tax. The little plug-style

adapters don't work. This is a "Y" that consolidates both mouse and

keyboard into a single USB connector.

In truth, I don't know how you did the upgrade if you didn't boot off

the CD. I guess there's a way but I did a clean install. Anyway, the

keyboard stops working as soon as it gets to the display asking if you

want to update, install, or something else. The boot process works fine

but as soon as the installation software is loaded up, the keyboard

stops working. ESX 4.1 works OK. Since you got it working without the

keyboard, you can't turn on SSH which effectively locks you out of the

command line (but you know this). The new 4.1 kernels are VMware

specific kernels. No more Redhat for ESX. But I think they mis-built the

kernel for ESXi 4.1 and omitted the PS/2 driver.

[bendered]

I wasn't intending on using Virtualbox as a platform, it doesn't have the abilities or features VMware does.

My intention was to install and practice with it for an upcoming job. Since the original post was for someone teaching a class, I was giving them a viable option to have the class actually be able to install and use it without having to fork over money they may not have.

[DSTAVERT]

specific kernels. No more Redhat for ESX. But I think they mis-built the

kernel for ESXi 4.1 and omitted the PS/2 driver.

PS/2 works just fine. There may be specific keyboard / motherboard combinations that have issue and you may have one of those combinations. I have had this issue in the past with more than one OS including various flavors of Windows.

[dkpatrick]

Interesting. Thanks for the info. Just to confirm, this only happens with ESXi.

[bendered]

I posted a workable solution to the original poster so it could be an option to at least be able to train a class on ESXi. Having a hardware change like this is a pretty serious change given that it wasn't included in the release notes that it may or may not work with your current keyboards or KVM's. You obviously have a budget to go out and purchase all the hardware to make it work, but others may not have that budget.

The original poster's only concern was being able to teach his class, not create some enterprise VM environment. I know that Virtualbox could handle that at this point, but given a bug of this level, I would hope that VMware is working on a patch, or they will surely start losing business to Hyper-V, Parallel, and most likely Virtualbox soon a Oracle is working hard to make an enterprise-class VM product.