Virtuali3ed
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Are you going to trust vmWare in the future?

From the recent license goofup by vmware I have learnt some leasons: 1. Never trust a vendor. 2. Always have a backup.

So forum, here are some straight questions:

1. Are you going to trust vmware in the future even if the license terms change for now?


2. Would you consider bringing other solutions in your datacenter along with vmware?

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25 Replies
mittim12
Immortal
Immortal

Let me start by saying I'm not really affected by the license change.   With that my answers are below

1:   yes

2:   you always have to consider other alternatives to what you have.   I've tested Hyper-V a number of times at the request of my boss.  In the end I work for a company and I have to do what's in the best interest for that company.  If I don't then I'm not really doing my job.

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siers
Contributor
Contributor

1) No.  How much I will distrust them will be determined by what the license is when they actually release v5.  I will no longer trust that SnS will be enough to cover future upgrades.

2) Yes.  I had no desire at all to do so prior to these licensing changes.  VMware has worked for us for years, having a mixed environment is more complex, and the free vSphere was more than enough for any test/dev we wanted to do without commiting to the larger prices of Enterprise+ that we use for production.  Now with these drastic changes in cost and limitations of the free version we have no choice but to evaluate, and implement, other products.

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J1mbo
Virtuoso
Virtuoso

I have to wonder whether the community will remain at the quality it is now (if there is a loss of interest driven by the effective withdrawing of the free license).

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ChrisDearden
Expert
Expert

Perhaps I underestimate how widespread the free version was used ? An essentials licence is relativly a small step upwards - there are still eval keys available for home labs.

If this post has been useful , please consider awarding points. @chrisdearden http://jfvi.co.uk http://vsoup.net
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siers
Contributor
Contributor

That's a great question J1mbo.  The community is one of the things I love about VMware.  Forums like this, a ton of blogs, some fantastic podcasts, and other great resources. 

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kcucadmin
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Virtuali3ed wrote:

1. Are you going to trust vmware in the future even if the license terms change for now?


2. Would you consider bringing other solutions in your datacenter along with vmware?

1) NO.  Trust is earned over time.  and Squandered in secs.  I see vmware as the new Novel/Oracle.  It's only a matter of time before MS gobbles up the market.

2) Personally i dont see the benefit of a heterogeneous environment, any reduction in risk is outweighed by having to manage multiple environments.  I will begin looking at the other solutions on the market.  We already own MS Datacenter, and We Already own XENDesktop Licenses. So  why have a 3rd partner in VMWARE/EMC.  I got totally hosed on my EMC storage solution (Celerra NX4) now VMWare pulls, this.  Personally i will not do business with EMC anymore.  I'll start looking seriously at XEN and Hyper-V.

I'm a Simple 8 Host - 2 Cluster, (1 Ent+, 1 Adv) shop. I can live with out the bells and whistles.  What i can't live with, is my 5 year project plans being thrown into complete disarray one year after making a huge investment into vmware.

this is what happens when MBA's start making decisions for Technology companies.  VMWare has just gone mainstream in the last 2 years.  didn't take them long to forget how and who got them there.

you can probably tell i'm very disappointed.  oh well time to move on i guess.  Leave our 4.1 hosts as is.  maybe convert my ADV Licenses to 5.0 but i doubt i will be on VMWARE in another 5 years.

if you had asked me that question a month ago, i would of said, hell yes, vmware is the bomb, i love it.

now.  well now i'm still trying to pull out the broom handle that was just whoomp snapped off in my, well i'll let you fill in the rest.

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nolent
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

If they "fix" this mistake, yes. If not, no.

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BrianCHW
Contributor
Contributor

Give them time to adjust and react to the customer base.  They are a pretty good company and I really think they listen to the customer base.   I bet something will happen before VMworld.

Brian Kirsch Instructor, MATC VMUG Global Board of Directors M.Ed, VCP3, VCP4-DV, VCP5-DCV, EMCISA MCP, BADDC, CCA, VAI, VCC & vExpert 2013
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jamesbowling
VMware Employee
VMware Employee

1.  Yes, I will trust them.  Changes happen in our industry, it is just the nature of the beast.

2.  I have always been able to consider this.  I believe that things need to be deployed if they are the best fit.  This keeps me from limiting myself and the abilities of my infrastructure.

James B. | Blog: http://www.vSential.com | Twitter: @vSential --- If you found this helpful then please awards helpful or correct points accordingly. Thanks!
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LockAze
Contributor
Contributor

1: Maybe, that will really depend on the licensing of the free wmware ESXi 5

2: Not together, I would consider kicking out vmware

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mrudloff
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

I'd say yes, but some big customer (who will still have to pay 150% when upgrading to v5) lost the trust and are currently in the process of testing alternatives because

1. Being big customer, they have all the necessary Windows licenses anyway

2. Being big customer, they already have all the necessary SAN / hardware requirements

but more importantly

3. They lost the trust in a way that they are afraid that VMWare, and I quote, "pulls that kind of stunt in the future".

None the less, even with changed licenses model they will still pay 150%+ on license fees so they are "gone" as VMWare customer either way .... (but run v4 until the migration scenarios have been tested)

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golddiggie
Champion
Champion

1. Since they did change the license model for v5 due to the response recieved here... Yes.

2. I've looked at other products in the past, and reviewed the documentation for some again when the original v5 licensing was announced. Ruled out Xen Server pretty quickly. I worked on a Hyper-V setup about a year ago... Even that short of an exposure was enough to know that it's not really a viable solution. At least not yet. I will revisit the alternatives when they release updates. But they have big shoes to fill.

As for the license count. Where I'm currently working, we'll be fine even maintaining the licenses under the original v5 terms. More so under the updated ones. I do think they (VMware) need to uncouple the licenses to socket count. If you have a server with one, or four processors in it, it should be by vRAM allocation that you get additional licenses.  I think that would go over better than keeping the tie to socket count.

Hosted Systems Engineer IV (VMware environment)
Brewing beer again!
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wdroush1
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

Virtuali3ed wrote:

From the recent license goofup by vmware I have learnt some leasons: 1. Never trust a vendor. 2. Always have a backup.

So forum, here are some straight questions:

1. Are you going to trust vmware in the future even if the license terms change for now?


2. Would you consider bringing other solutions in your datacenter along with vmware?

1) Currently, no. Major reason we may not go with them is the fact they even considered their inability to do simple math reasonable. I'm not invested financially like a lot of the VCEs here are, so I don't have to trust them.

2) I have installer disks for 3 hypervisors on my dev machine that we're rolling out when I have time, so yeah. I'll have to roll them even if we do go with VMWare just to familiarize myself with other technologies in case VMWare craps out business wise.

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ichijo
Contributor
Contributor

1. With two major releases we've been burnt with licensing issues. Thanks for Enterprise Plus while we were on an SnS plan on 3.5 - we reaaaaaaally appreciated that, and no, we decided that the extra features were not compelling enough for the price being asked. Anything about a version 6 is going to be overshadowed with licensing concerns which, as with vSphere 5, will be the major focus instead of any technical changes.

2. Currently no plans to use two products in the short term. Would not surprise me to trial other products for dev/test and over time determine whether the high cost of a product that we don't use all the bells and whistles on is an appropriate investment.

Also, can we move away from these paper launches. Bored of blogs blabbing how awesome everything is when it's not publicly available.

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mrudloff
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Very good point re: paper launches .. I was out and received the mail that vSphere 5 has been "released" - so everybody got all fired up just to realize that it isn't the case per-se.

Same with the download .. You can download a "free trial" and only after the registration process you get the message that you'll be notified once vSphere 5 is available to download ..

Really annoying ..

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RParker
Immortal
Immortal

From the recent license goofup by vmware I have learnt some leasons: 1. Never trust a vendor. 2. Always have a backup.

So forum, here are some straight questions:

1. Are you going to trust vmware in the future even if the license terms change for now?


2. Would you consider bringing other solutions in your datacenter along with vmware?

The license was NOT a goofup, it was intentional.  VM ware charges for a license.  Before now it was a simple model, you just license by socket, and you are done.  Higher densitiy machines forced VM ware to figure out how to make more money.  They just did it NOT to maintain their cash flow but basically to gouge customers, that's where they made their mistake.. I agree with companies making money, we wouldn't have jobs otherwise, I just don't agree with the LOW figures they derived, but I do believe this was deliberately low to get exactly what they were looking for, FEEDBACK.  NOW they know what customers are WILLING to pay.

vendor is too gereric, there are many vendors, not all of them are greedy arrogant, some have high integrity, so you can't dismiss ALL vendors by saying you can't trust them.. that's not right either.

always have a back, never keep all of your eggs in one basket, that is a VERY true statement.

1) Trust VM Ware?  This isn't the first debacle, I recall a certain time when they released a product (before it was fully tested) and a license snafu restricted VM's from powering on.. and the solution was to change the time previous to the license activation, which basically showed a glaring security breach in VM Ware products if it's that easy to breach a license and alos the lack of thorough testing, so I am a bit skeptical since then anyway.  Now I am know VM ware is considering themsevles the ONLY worthy virtualization platform, but shot themsevles in the foot by pricing themselves out of the market.  This was a mistake, I do think customers will return (much like the sports fans the KEEP letting greedy players dictate the game -- that's another story).  VM Ware market will sharply decline over the next 12 months, so if were ready for more competition, they just got it.

2) VM ware has good products, the problem is VM ware is nickle and diming people to death.  Every solution is MORE $$$ another license, more support, and extended contracts.  What is really interesting is these are Microsoft tactics, yet MS is content (probably because they are behind in the game, but definately not out) to keep their licenses the same.  I am certain MS will capiltize on this moreso than any other, simply due to the fact the Windows is the largest OS contigent.  The loss vm ware suffers I believe will equate to at least an 80% to Microsoft, and the rest will go to other 3rd parties, so VM ware loss is MS gain.

MS DOES have a good product, they don't have the comprehensive SUITE of products like VM ware, that's where MS should focus.  We have many different virtualization products, because we have to test them, and I can guarantee you pound for pound Hyper-V is every bit as capable, and in some ways more resilient then VM ware in terms of consolidation and performance.. Hyper-V is just not very easy to manage, and there is the problem with the host OS, when a service crashes, the VM's go with it.. that's a problem.  when everything is smooth I give Hyper-V a slight advantage for PURE VM host.  If all you want is to power ON a VM and let it run, Hyper-V works better, when you want to migrate, cluster, manage etc.. that's where VM ware outshines the rest.  Hyper-V vs VM ware on same hardware there is really no difference, but Hyper-V has slightly better benchmarks at the VM level at least in my testing.. on the SAME SAN.

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RParker
Immortal
Immortal

Robert Samples wrote:

Virtuali3ed wrote:

1. Are you going to trust vmware in the future even if the license terms change for now?


2. Would you consider bringing other solutions in your datacenter along with vmware?

this is what happens when MBA's start making decisions for Technology companies.  VMWare has just gone mainstream in the last 2 years.  didn't take them long to forget how and who got them there.

WOW! Great comment!

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RParker
Immortal
Immortal

golddiggie wrote:

1. Since they did change the license model for v5 due to the response recieved here... Yes.

We discussed this very fact, and we determined they low balled customers on purpose, so they KNEW it was going to cause a rift and they were prepared to make another offer, they started low to see how much customers were willing to pay.  I believe they were "testing the waters".. if customers were smart and we banded together we could push them to go higher, but since VM Ware gave a concession.. and customers seem to adpot it...I don't think that's going to happen now.

sales - I will give you 1000 dollars for your car!

customer - What? Its worth 5000 blue book..

sales - ok 1500 for your car and we will pay the sales tax.

customer - deal!

It's classic car dealer technique... we bought it hook line and sinker...

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roglar
Contributor
Contributor

I refuse to belive that VMware made this PR disaster on purpose.

What the actual cost of this massive badwill is going to end up for VMware is hard to see.

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