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danielmgrinnell
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

UEM + Writable Vols

Hey Guys,

I just wanted to start a quick discussion on how to use App Vols and UEM together in an environment. Currently, i am playing with Writable Volumes with UIA and with UEM in another instance Writable vols with UIA and Profile + UEM. As i have researched it looks like its recommended when using UEM to only use Writable vols with UIA and not with the profile template that saves profile data to the writable, is this correct or is anyone using App Vols writables with UIA+Profile and UEM?

I ask because when i only use Writables with UIA and UEM not including the Profile template whenever i log off if i have an application that i don't make an app stack for i need to reinstall it lose some settings on the applications, should i be just creating app stacks for every app under the sun or should i just use Writable Vols with UIA + Profile + UEM?

I am just in a testing phase and trying to figure out the cleanest most scalable solution that has a consistent experience for the users.

If we can start up a discussion on this that would be great, i just find there is so little out there right now on UEM, but its such a powerful product!

thanks all!

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7 Replies
techguy129
Expert
Expert

It isn't recommended to use writable volumes with profile management when using UEM. However, if you want to use UEM for user environment settings/app blocking, etc... you will want to remove any applications under Personalization tab in UEM manager.

I have had to many issues with writable volumes and decided against using them. They are a pain to upgrade and if they become corrupt you have to blast everything away. I recommend using Appstacks, thinapp, and UEM for non-persistent desktops unless you want users to have the ability to install their own apps.

As far as your issue, there is a configuration file on all appstacks/writable vols that excludes paths to files/folders/registry that may be interfering with the installation of your application. Its called snapvol.cfg. Plenty on the web on how to configure it.

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Ray_handels
Virtuoso
Virtuoso

This is like opening Pandora's box Smiley Happy To.... many... variables...

I do agree with techguy's view on the blasting the writable away part if it doesn;t work anymore but from the start of it until now we have seen great enhancement in writable volumes. When using the 2.12 writable templates we don;t see that many issues any more. If a user has administrative permissions and fiddles around like crazy with his writable you will be resetting it every other month I'm afraid. Normal use of it does work quite well.

We just backup the writables now and when a user does corrupt his writable it's mostly just a matter of copying the files back from backup location to production. We don;t use the fling for it though but simply put just copy the writables from storage A to storage B and vice versa.

When you are using UEM in conjuntion with writable + UIA you do have the settings for the users in place if you do need to recreate their writable volume. Downside is it will add another few seconds to the logon time which is already a bit higher with a bunch of appstacks attached. We also are looking at implementing this configuration due to being able to backup user settings, migrate from W7 to W10 and make sure users get the same settings on both VDI and their physical machines. If these things do not apply to you don't use UEM with personalization, just make a choice between any of those.

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danielmgrinnell
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Thanks for the feedback!

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danielmgrinnell
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Yeah im basically trying to calibrate the best experience w/ out each tech stepping on each others toes and i use UEM for a ton of things such as file redirection to a file share and OST redirection to the writable, i think im just going to have to do a ton of testing when i build this in production.

I have notice when i remove the +Profile from the writable i lose things like the bookmarks, but i do like how it redirects the settings to the UEM profile share and partially to the writable.

Do you guys allow users to install applications or do you just build appstacks for the every common app and any requested application??  i am leaning towards this solution, but ovisouly can be tedious to get all apps stacks created, but i do like the idea of this higher security and scales very well w/ just entitling the users.

Goal is less buggy experience for user and allow for redirection since i run a non persistent environment.

Do you guys run a non persistent environment?

I do like the idea of Backing up the Writables i will look into that, do you have any articles you can suggest on an automated VMDK backup (thats how im considering how to pull this off) the writables?

thanks guys!

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Ray_handels
Virtuoso
Virtuoso

Do you guys allow users to install applications or do you just build appstacks for the every common app and any requested application??

Yes, we mostly try to package all applications within appstacks. The moment you start installing applications within the writable it will fill up quit quickly. We do have a large group of users that are administrators but still ask them to request us to package the larger applications. We also do the updating. Once you get the hang of the packaging process (make sure you sequencing machine has as less running services and update processes as possible, looking at you Google Chrome Smiley Happy) it is straightforward and pretty quick.

Do you guys run a non persistent environment?

Yes. I'd say don;t use Appvolumes if you are using persistent environments because without a writable or UEM nothing will be saved due to the Appvolumes filter driver. Appvolumes is made for floating non persistent pools (just my 2 cents).

I do like the idea of Backing up the Writables i will look into that, do you have any articles you can suggest on an automated VMDK backup (thats how im considering how to pull this off) the writables?

No, very sorry.

We  are now using a Windows server with an NFS client installed that connects to both datastores (which are NFS) and we have a powershell script that copies disk from storage A to B. It sounds simple but the script is pretty large and took an few weeks to get into perfect shape. The fling for backing up writables is only for very small deployments at least that's my opinion. Once you get it to work it does do the trick very well. And as said, when a user screws up it's writable it's just a case of copying the file using the VCenter Datastore browser to copy the file back.

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danielmgrinnell
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Awesome! thanks so much for all the great feedback.

I am currently architecting a production VDI environment:

Non-Persistent : Float D-Pools w/ Delete on Log off

App Vols : AppStacks and Wriatbles (was going the Profile + UIA) , but now will have to justify either way w/ significance testing

UEM:  Folder and OST Redirection for users

Are you guys using RDS? I am going to build an app farm and have had the request to be able to Email from RDS. Now my solution was to install MS office and entitle Outlook and to create the Mail profile to point to their redirected directory on their UEM Profile user data directory on a file server. I am currently working out the UEM configs to recognize which OS the user logs into and it then builds the OST either in their writable win7 or w12R2. Challenge is the writable is being prevented to attach if already attached, so i had to think how to get the ost over to the file share and at this point im building that in a POC as a test by hand, but just need to do a bit more testing.

Do you guys use Cache mode and OST's in your NonP environment?

Thanks!

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Ray_handels
Virtuoso
Virtuoso

Non-Persistent : Float D-Pools w/ Delete on Log off

Be carefull with this and writable volumes. If a writable volume is still attached to a machine while VMWare Horizon is already deleting the machine it could possibly delete the writable. Appstacks are non deletable so no issues there. We learnt the hard way that it deletes the writables if attached Smiley Happy. I'd say go for refresh after log off.

Are you guys using RDS?

Not yet Smiley Happy. We have tested with an appstack attached to a W2012 server and pusblish the application that way, works like a charm Smiley Happy. Saves the trouble of installing applications on the RDS host.

Do you guys use Cache mode and OST's in your NonP environment?

Nope. Does work well with a writable if you would like to but if you go for UIA + profile and OST's with a 20 GB writable (and default is just 10GB which in my opinion is not enough) and a possible 10GB mailbox, my guess is that you can do the math Smiley Happy. That's why we love DropBox and all the other file syncing tools with writables.. Users can fill up a writable in mere seconds Smiley Happy

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