JackBack42
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

DEM Not Applying Default Apps

Hello there,

We have a new win 10 1909 environment we're trying to roll out and we're having extreme issues with DEM not applying/saving default apps and FTAs correctly and we cannot figure out why.

I have the Default Apps and FTAs flex engine enabled with a predefined forced setting to set Internet Explorer as default browser and to set adobe reader to open PDFs.

It seems to save and apply the adobe reader FTA, and it actually seems to map .http and .https files to Internet Explorer, but it only makes IE the default browser about 40-50% of the time, so when we click on a link inside of outlook it opens up in edge.

I worked with support and they had me drop the .xml file in the file type association page on DEM as well and like I said that part seems to be applying correctly just not for the default application part.

I'll attach several pictures and a log of my latest login to see if that will help any.

I do appreciate it!

Edit: I apologize, I forgot to list that we are using DEM version 9.11 as well.

36 Replies
ijdemes
Expert
Expert

Hi JackBack42​,

As far as I can see, you have used the same approach that I have succesfully used in my recent DEM projects. Just to double check and summarize these steps.

- Log on with a user

- Configure the default apps in Settings/Control Panel

- Logoff the user (to save the default apps/fta's in the ZIP file)

- Use the ZIP file as a predefined setting (default (runned once) or forced, depending on your requirements)

- Configure FTA's in User Environment

- Have the Default Apps & FTA's config file present (based on 9.11 built-in template that contains the magic for saving/restoring default apps and fta's)

Do I assume the above correctly?

Do you need the (legacy) Edge browser? Otherwise, I normally just remove it from the system/golden image.


\\ Ivan
---
Twitter: @ivandemes
Blog: https://www.ivandemes.com
JackBack42
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Enthusiast

Hello ijdemes​,

That is correct, I followed those steps to a T to get this going, which is weird, because like I said FTA's seem to apply but the default browser itself doesn't change so the end result is:

- .html files on my desktop are able to open up via IE

- links in applications such as Outlook are still opening up in Edge

We do not need Edge, the company actually paid someone to make the image before I got here but I have been toying around the idea of just recreating the image from scratch as I'm not sure what all they have done to it.

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ijdemes
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Starting from scratch is not a bad idea. That way you at least have a feeling of grip on the golden image.

I have to say that I have no customers that (want to) use the "old" MS Edge browser. Therefore, I always remove it from the golden image. The latter is probably the reason I don't see the same behavior as you do.

Maybe Edge hijacks some FTA's after user logon. This can be checked using the assoc and ftype commands in a command prompt (CMD).

The steps for configuring FTA's I mentioned earlier always work up to now. But without having Edge in the golden image.


\\ Ivan
---
Twitter: @ivandemes
Blog: https://www.ivandemes.com
JackBack42
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Enthusiast

That definitely makes sense and is the path that we're going to take, do most people on here recommend following the techzone optimization guide generally or what is the most popular?

I really do appreciate all the help!

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ijdemes
Expert
Expert

Following the TechZone optimizations is definitely recommended. Any custom optimizations I need (for applications/services/registry/etc.) are added to OSOT in my case for single point of configuration/administration.

Check using the SysInternals Autoruns (http://live.sysinternals.com/) utility which processes/applications are automatically executed after user logon and evaluate which processes/applications can be removed from automatic execution and add those to OSOT.

I also remove all Active Setup keys that have a stub path configured. This speeds up the logon. Rarely an application needs those keys in my experience. If you don't want to have those keys removed, at least make sure you have the Active Setup config file template configured in DEM to save those keys after the first user logon. This prevents them from being executed every time a user logs on.

Depending on your AV application/vendor, doing a full scan may flag (all) the files in the golden image, which prevents the files from being scanned again when the image is cloned.


\\ Ivan
---
Twitter: @ivandemes
Blog: https://www.ivandemes.com
JackBack42
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Awesome that helps tremendously thank you again!

One last question and I promise I'll leave you alone, which method did you use to remove the old edge? I have tried the powershell remove-appxpackage as well as renaming the files in systemapps but neither seem to be working correctly for me, IDK if maybe Microsoft has updating something recently making it harder to remove.

Again I do appreciate it!

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ijdemes
Expert
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Hi JackBack42​,

No worries, we're here to help.

I use the following PoSh code to remove (a.k.a. rename) MS Edge:

Start-Process "taskkill" -ArgumentList "/f /im MicrosoftEdge.exe" -Wait -NoNewWindow

Rename-Item C:\Windows\SystemApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftEdge_8wekyb3d8bbwe C:\Windows\SystemApps\__RENAMED__Microsoft.MicrosoftEdge_8wekyb3d8bbwe -Force

(The Rename-Item line ends with -Force and is a single line)

I used the above code with Windows 10 v1809.


\\ Ivan
---
Twitter: @ivandemes
Blog: https://www.ivandemes.com
pieterheijms
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Hi Ivan,

- Log on with a user

- Configure the default apps in Settings/Control Panel

- Logoff the user (to save the default apps/fta's in the ZIP file)

- Use the ZIP file as a predefined setting (default (runned once) or forced, depending on your requirements)

- Configure FTA's in User Environment

- Have the Default Apps & FTA's config file present (based on 9.11 built-in template that contains the magic for saving/restoring default apps and fta's)

Do you also use the DEM Application Profiler? Or just the steps which you mentioned?

Thanks,

Pieter

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ijdemes
Expert
Expert

Hi Pieter,

I do not use the Application Profiler in this specific case, just the steps provided. The last line "Have the Default Apps & FTA's config file present" is a requirement that needs to be in place before starting step 1 (Log on with a user).

For most applications (settings) I do recommend using the Application Profiler with a fallback to Regshot and/or Procmon.


\\ Ivan
---
Twitter: @ivandemes
Blog: https://www.ivandemes.com
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JackBack42
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Enthusiast

Hello there,

I just wanted to report back,

I made a new 1909 image from scratch using the techzone guide to a T and removed edge via your post, and now I'm still having the same issue where IE is only mapped as default browser about half the time, the other half the time there is no default browser selected at all, I'm really not sure what else to try here as it seems to be working correctly for other people with the same setup I have used.

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ijdemes
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I haven't created an image with v1909 yet. I will try to reproduce when I find the time and let you know.


\\ Ivan
---
Twitter: @ivandemes
Blog: https://www.ivandemes.com
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ijdemes
Expert
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I managed to create a new image using Win10 v1909. I used the TechZone article for optimizating and renamed the MicrosoftEdge folder in C:\Windows\SystemApps.

I have both Chrome and Firefox installed in the image.

I have used the steps described earlier (user login, configure defaults, logoff, use zip for predefined setting) for creating the Default Apps predefined setting that is part of the Default Apps.INI config file. I logged on using multiple test accounts (10 in total) with a combination of fresh profiles and existing profiles. My predefined Default Apps are configured everytime. With every test account I have logged on 4 times with expected results (my predefined settings that is).

pastedImage_0.png

I am really curious what our (possible) differences may be during the creation/optimization of the image and the configuration in DEM. But for now, I don't have a clue to be honest.


\\ Ivan
---
Twitter: @ivandemes
Blog: https://www.ivandemes.com
ijdemes
Expert
Expert

Same expected results for me when Internet Explorer is configured as default for my test accounts.

pastedImage_0.png


\\ Ivan
---
Twitter: @ivandemes
Blog: https://www.ivandemes.com
JackBack42
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Wow that's pretty crazy,

We don't have much extra setup going via GPO or even optimization, I tried to keep this new image I made as close to vanilla as possible just to make sure I wouldn't have any weird settings conflicting.

I will say I made a new xml file that had slight changes to my first I posted in this post and it does seem to apply more consistently, I'm up to around 75% now which I'm going to accept for right now because I have to roll out by end of month and now I'm fighting 2-3 min login times with shell load being anywhere from 40-119 seconds and user policy being between 23-70 seconds (most of that seems to be DEM profile importing of a <5mb profile but that's another topic for a different post haha.

I really do appreciate all of your help and even going as far as to create a new image to test with me, At least I know I'm not crazy in how I was setting up the DEM part was correct.

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ijdemes
Expert
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For sure, it's crazy. And like I said, I am just wondering what our differences may be.

Are you using mandatory or local profile?

About the logon times, 2-3 minutes is a longggg timeeeee..... Smiley Wink

Have you implemented the delayeddesktopswitchtimeout registry value? --> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/940452/the-welcome-screen-may-be-displayed-for-30-seconds-a... (still applies to Win10). I mostly set it to either 2 or 5.

Have you enabled "Display highly detailed status messages" in your computer GPO? This can be found in Computer Configuration --> Administrative Templates --> System (requires reboot after first apply)

pastedImage_2.png

This may help in determining in which stage the logon seems to delay.

Another thing you can look at is the VMware Logon Monitor --> https://www.ivandemes.com/fixing-the-no-vmware-horizon-view-logon-monitor-session-logs-are-created-i...

And regarding the help, no worries. That's what this forum is all about. Smiley Happy


\\ Ivan
---
Twitter: @ivandemes
Blog: https://www.ivandemes.com
JackBack42
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

so in the original image I worked with when I made this post was using the mandatory profile but when I made the new image following the techzone guide they actually stated with later version it was inconsistent so I made the new image without the profile.

Do you suggest using the mandatory profile?

And yes the login time is absolutely maddening, with no consistency whatsoever,

And sadly I have tried all of those things, keeping the Delayeddesktop registry at 2 seemed to give me best results, the logon monitor logs show me that 99% of the logon time is coming from "Shell Load time" which is anywhere from 40-119 seconds and the "Applying User Policy" Section with 23-70 seconds.

Over the weekend I'm migrating our demprofile share to a server using SSDs to hopefully give me any sort of performance boost, We've already made sure all VMs are running off SSDs

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JackBack42
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Enthusiast

Here are a couple of entries from my logon monitor logs just for reference.

2020-07-07T13:09:49.396 INFO (0fac-1538) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Time: 163.44 seconds

2020-07-07T13:09:49.396 INFO (0fac-1538) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Hive Loaded Time: 3.35 seconds

2020-07-07T13:09:49.396 INFO (0fac-1538) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Classes Hive Loaded Time: 6.91 seconds

2020-07-07T13:09:49.396 INFO (0fac-1538) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Profile Sync Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-07-07T13:09:49.396 INFO (0fac-1538) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Windows Folder Redirection Apply Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-07-07T13:09:49.396 INFO (0fac-1538) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Shell Load Time: 95.27 seconds

2020-07-07T13:09:49.396 INFO (0fac-1538) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Total Logon Script Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-07-07T13:09:49.396 INFO (0fac-1538) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] User Policy Apply Time: 52 seconds

2020-07-07T13:09:49.396 INFO (0fac-1538) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Machine Policy Apply Time: 0 seconds

2020-07-07T13:09:49.396 INFO (0fac-1538) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Group Policy Software Install Time: 2.75 seconds

2020-07-07T13:09:49.396 INFO (0fac-1538) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Free Disk Space Available To User: 23 GB

2020-07-07T16:21:34.081 INFO (1070-0360) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Time: 179.06 seconds

2020-07-07T16:21:34.081 INFO (1070-0360) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Hive Loaded Time: 2.99 seconds

2020-07-07T16:21:34.081 INFO (1070-0360) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Classes Hive Loaded Time: 4.74 seconds

2020-07-07T16:21:34.081 INFO (1070-0360) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Profile Sync Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-07-07T16:21:34.081 INFO (1070-0360) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Windows Folder Redirection Apply Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-07-07T16:21:34.081 INFO (1070-0360) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Shell Load Time: 86.74 seconds

2020-07-07T16:21:34.081 INFO (1070-0360) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Total Logon Script Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-07-07T16:21:34.081 INFO (1070-0360) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] User Policy Apply Time: 67 seconds

2020-07-07T16:21:34.081 INFO (1070-0360) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Machine Policy Apply Time: 0 seconds

2020-07-07T16:21:34.081 INFO (1070-0360) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Group Policy Software Install Time: 2.72 seconds

2020-07-07T16:21:34.081 INFO (1070-0360) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Free Disk Space Available To User: 20 GB

2020-07-01T17:12:33.740 INFO (1078-046c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Time: 96.74 seconds

2020-07-01T17:12:33.740 INFO (1078-046c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Hive Loaded Time: 13.37 seconds

2020-07-01T17:12:33.740 INFO (1078-046c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Classes Hive Loaded Time: 14.81 seconds

2020-07-01T17:12:33.740 INFO (1078-046c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Profile Sync Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-07-01T17:12:33.740 INFO (1078-046c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Windows Folder Redirection Apply Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-07-01T17:12:33.740 INFO (1078-046c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Shell Load Time: 59.30 seconds

2020-07-01T17:12:33.740 INFO (1078-046c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Total Logon Script Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-07-01T17:12:33.740 INFO (1078-046c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] User Policy Apply Time: 20 seconds

2020-07-01T17:12:33.740 INFO (1078-046c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Machine Policy Apply Time: 0 seconds

2020-07-01T17:12:33.740 INFO (1078-046c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Group Policy Software Install Time: 1.31 seconds

2020-07-01T17:12:33.740 INFO (1078-046c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Free Disk Space Available To User: 23 GB

2020-07-07T08:42:07.575 INFO (10f8-010c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Time: 276.50 seconds

2020-07-07T08:42:07.575 INFO (10f8-010c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Hive Loaded Time: 4.77 seconds

2020-07-07T08:42:07.575 INFO (10f8-010c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Classes Hive Loaded Time: 8.04 seconds

2020-07-07T08:42:07.575 INFO (10f8-010c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Profile Sync Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-07-07T08:42:07.575 INFO (10f8-010c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Windows Folder Redirection Apply Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-07-07T08:42:07.575 INFO (10f8-010c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Shell Load Time: 147.19 seconds

2020-07-07T08:42:07.575 INFO (10f8-010c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Total Logon Script Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-07-07T08:42:07.575 INFO (10f8-010c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] User Policy Apply Time: 97 seconds

2020-07-07T08:42:07.575 INFO (10f8-010c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Machine Policy Apply Time: 0 seconds

2020-07-07T08:42:07.575 INFO (10f8-010c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Group Policy Software Install Time: 2.52 seconds

2020-07-07T08:42:07.575 INFO (10f8-010c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Free Disk Space Available To User: 23 GB

Just to give you a sort of idea of the craziness I've been experiencing. For reference we have a windows 7 environment running alongside this using the same file servers and everything and they experience 0 delay or lag throughout the day which makes me feel like if it were the environment itself we would be having complaints of general performance

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ijdemes
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I recommend using an optimized default local profile. Not a mandatory profile. From my experience some Windows components may break using a mandatory profile. Did you use OSOT for optimizing the default local profile?

Also check that the settings from OSOT are indeed applied when a user has logged on with this profile. Just to double check.

Just to rule out, what happens when you disable DEM regarding the logon times? Do you see the same results for logon and shell load?


\\ Ivan
---
Twitter: @ivandemes
Blog: https://www.ivandemes.com
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ijdemes
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Oh, and something that hasn't been mentioned yet I believe is anti-virus (AV). Did you check the AV config for DEM? --> https://techzone.vmware.com/resource/antivirus-considerations-vmware-horizon-environment#_Clients

Do you have any other services in place that do anything during/after logon? Like App Volumes, FSLogix, etc.?


\\ Ivan
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Twitter: @ivandemes
Blog: https://www.ivandemes.com
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