mrstorey303
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Acceptable Horizon Desktop Logon Time?

Hi,

What, in your opinion, is an acceptable logon time for a horizon pool with this config? :

- Windows 10 Enterprise

- Horizon 7.2

- Instant Clone, Floating pool

- User Environment Manager 9.2

- Small Mandatory Profile (~3MB)

- Dedicated UCS + Pure Storage Flash Array hardware

I can't seem to get logon time much below 30secs.  I know the answer to a lot of this is 'it depends’.  Depends on how tolerant the user is, depends on what and how many GPOs are applied, depends on the hardware backing the VDI environment etc.

To me though, 30secs is a bit disappointing.  A user can typically logon to their personal Win10 laptop in less than 5 seconds - I know this is an unfair benchmark to draw comparison, but it’s these kind of comparisons a user will make - users don’t care about the complexities behind delivering non-persistent desktops vs having a pre-built profile sat on a local SSD - one just is ‘faster’ than the other.

For those of you using non persistent View pools, what logon times are you achieving?

Thanks.

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41 Replies
jmatz135
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

2017-08-22T16:19:40.529 INFO (0b20-14b4) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] ****************** Session Summary (User: <username>, Session: 1) *****************

2017-08-22T16:19:40.529 INFO (0b20-14b4) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Time: 12.30 seconds

2017-08-22T16:19:40.529 INFO (0b20-14b4) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Hive Loaded Time: 0.00 seconds

2017-08-22T16:19:40.529 INFO (0b20-14b4) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Classes Hive Loaded Time: 1.83 seconds

2017-08-22T16:19:40.529 INFO (0b20-14b4) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Profile Sync Time: 0.79 seconds

2017-08-22T16:19:40.529 INFO (0b20-14b4) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Windows Folder Redirection Apply Time: 0.00 seconds

2017-08-22T16:19:40.529 INFO (0b20-14b4) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Shell Load Time: 3.05 seconds

2017-08-22T16:19:40.529 INFO (0b20-14b4) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Total Logon Script Time: 0.00 seconds

2017-08-22T16:19:40.529 INFO (0b20-14b4) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] User Policy Apply Time: 6 seconds

2017-08-22T16:19:40.529 INFO (0b20-14b4) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Machine Policy Apply Time: 0 seconds

2017-08-22T16:19:40.529 INFO (0b20-14b4) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Group Policy Software Install Time: 0.05 seconds

2017-08-22T16:19:40.529 INFO (0b20-14b4) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Free Disk Space Available To User: 43 GB

2017-08-22T16:19:40.529 INFO (0b20-14b4) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] *********************************************************************************

This is using Windows 10 1703 (not LTSB) with UEM 9.2 and these are non-persistent instant clones.  I have a mandatory profile set up to set the default settings and UEM to handle all user settings.  Most of the windows 10 metro apps are stripped out and I use a large portion of the windows 10 template from the VMware optimization tool.  I also have a few group policy settings for speed.  (below are my settings, some are for speed, some are just for security or general windows 10 settings)

pastedImage_0.png

Of course as soon as I add any app-volumes all my work optimizing the speed of login gets thrown out the window.

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VentziP
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

2017-08-22T16:10:44.304 INFO (0aa4-16cc) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] ****************** Session Summary (User: , Session: 3) *****************

2017-08-22T16:10:44.304 INFO (0aa4-16cc) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Time: 9.95 seconds

2017-08-22T16:10:44.304 INFO (0aa4-16cc) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Hive Loaded Time: 0.45 seconds

2017-08-22T16:10:44.304 INFO (0aa4-16cc) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Classes Hive Loaded Time: 0.57 seconds

2017-08-22T16:10:44.304 INFO (0aa4-16cc) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Profile Sync Time: 0.00 seconds

2017-08-22T16:10:44.304 INFO (0aa4-16cc) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Windows Folder Redirection Apply Time: 0.00 seconds

2017-08-22T16:10:44.304 INFO (0aa4-16cc) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Shell Load Time: 0.44 seconds

2017-08-22T16:10:44.304 INFO (0aa4-16cc) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Total Logon Script Time: 0.00 seconds

2017-08-22T16:10:44.304 INFO (0aa4-16cc) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] User Policy Apply Time: 4 seconds

2017-08-22T16:10:44.304 INFO (0aa4-16cc) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Machine Policy Apply Time: 0 seconds

2017-08-22T16:10:44.304 INFO (0aa4-16cc) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Group Policy Software Install Time: 0.36 seconds

2017-08-22T16:10:44.304 INFO (0aa4-16cc) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Free Disk Space Available To User: 29 GB

2017-08-22T16:10:44.304 INFO (0aa4-16cc) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] ************************************************************************************

This is using Windows 10 1607 LTSB with UEM 9.2 and AppVol 2.12.1 these are non-persistent instant clones. I have 1 App stack and using Writable volumes for the user profile. The golden image is configured with windows 10 template from the VMware optimization tool. The way I handle the Default profile is kind a simple. I login to the parent machine with a user and configure the way the profile is needed. Pin the shortcuts to Task bar, configure the tiles (Only Office, IE Device and Printers and Spinning Tool) that we will need etc. After completing the profile I login with the different account and used Defprof application from ForensiT. It is basically Updates the Default profile with settings from another profile (the one that I configured earlier). Then I deleted that profile and took a snapshot for use in View. I don't have anything special as a GPO to optimize the machines further.

I hope that will help.

VDINinja311
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

I was testing this registry setting (value of 2) on our desktops here and while it is shortening the time for the desktop to appear by at least 5 seconds, we are seeing that it is going to a black screen for ~5-10 seconds before the desktop appears. Anyone else seeing the desktop go completely black just before the desktop appears? Should I increase this value to maybe 5 or 10 or higher and test again?

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System]

"DelayedDesktopSwitchTimeout"=dword:00000002

ArnoM
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Value 2 also shows a black screen for me, but only for about 1-2 seconds.

I'm leaving the configuration on value 2 because this gives me the best logon performance.

Blog: https://arnomeijroos.com/ Twitter: @ACMeijroos
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sappomannoz
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

VentziP​​,

do you have any issues with writables volumes? Last time I did try to usa UIA+profiles everything was pretty unstable in windows 10

Cristiano

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NWCJared
Contributor
Contributor

Where can I get Logon Monitor. I could find one without a paid subscription. Looking for a demo or trial version. Have the same issue with long login times, thinks it more with the USB re-direction at this point...but would be nice to see.

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DEMdev
VMware Employee
VMware Employee

Hi NWCJared,

You can download it for free: VMware Logon Monitor​.

And, just in case, if you're on Horizon 7.1 or newer, it's already included.

mrstorey303
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

An average login time for us at the moment is about 25 seconds - I think we can live with that.  But sometimes we're getting unacceptably long login times - most looking like this:

2017-11-03T10:05:02.383 INFO (0a38-060c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] ****************** Session Summary (User: Session: 1) *****************

2017-11-03T10:05:02.383 INFO (0a38-060c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Time: 88.58 seconds

2017-11-03T10:05:02.383 INFO (0a38-060c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Hive Loaded Time: 3.51 seconds

2017-11-03T10:05:02.383 INFO (0a38-060c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Classes Hive Loaded Time: 3.64 seconds

2017-11-03T10:05:02.383 INFO (0a38-060c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Profile Sync Time: 0.00 seconds

2017-11-03T10:05:02.383 INFO (0a38-060c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Windows Folder Redirection Apply Time: 0.00 seconds

2017-11-03T10:05:02.383 INFO (0a38-060c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Shell Load Time: 3.09 seconds

2017-11-03T10:05:02.383 INFO (0a38-060c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Total Logon Script Time: 0.00 seconds

2017-11-03T10:05:02.383 INFO (0a38-060c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] User Policy Apply Time: 80 seconds

2017-11-03T10:05:02.383 INFO (0a38-060c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Machine Policy Apply Time: 0 seconds

2017-11-03T10:05:02.383 INFO (0a38-060c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Group Policy Software Install Time: 3.86 seconds

2017-11-03T10:05:02.383 INFO (0a38-060c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Free Disk Space Available To User: 25 GB

2017-11-03T10:05:02.383 INFO (0a38-060c) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] ***************************************************************************************

As you see - the majority of the time is 'User Policy Apply Time' - presumably this indicates an issue with applying user gpos?  Ie, nothing to do with UEM or horizon - something that is external to VDI?

I suspect it's hitting a slow domain controller or something - but just wanted to confirm that this category of time does not relate to any UEM configs getting applied at logon - is that right?

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Pim_van_de_Vis
VMware Employee
VMware Employee

UEM runs during the 'User GPO Apply Time', so it could still be UEM. Please share a UEM logfile from a case where the logon time was so long.

In a next version of UEM we are looking to integrate with the Logon Monitor in order to specify the time used only for UEM to make logging and troubleshooting easier.

robsisk1972
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

I know this post is a bit old but thought I'd give it a shot.   I'm having really bad logon times.   As much as 4 minutes plus for some users. Seems as though logon times don't get really bad until many users are attempting to logon simultaneously.   In an attempt to troubleshoot, I have stripped a user down to the bare minimum to create a base line.   This user has no apps assigned via app volumes, Less the 2mb of configs in UEM and no other user GPOs assingned.   upon logon, I see this:

2020-01-09T14:57:27.001 INFO (1150-1834) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] ****************** Session Summary (User: ISBESPR1\jsled, Session: 1) *****************

2020-01-09T14:57:27.001 INFO (1150-1834) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Time: 43.66 seconds

2020-01-09T14:57:27.001 INFO (1150-1834) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Hive Loaded Time: 15.80 seconds

2020-01-09T14:57:27.001 INFO (1150-1834) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Classes Hive Loaded Time: 17.42 seconds

2020-01-09T14:57:27.001 INFO (1150-1834) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Profile Sync Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-01-09T14:57:27.001 INFO (1150-1834) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Windows Folder Redirection Apply Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-01-09T14:57:27.001 INFO (1150-1834) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Shell Load Time: 15.72 seconds

2020-01-09T14:57:27.001 INFO (1150-1834) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Total Logon Script Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-01-09T14:57:27.001 INFO (1150-1834) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] User Policy Apply Time: 7 seconds

2020-01-09T14:57:27.001 INFO (1150-1834) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Machine Policy Apply Time: 0 seconds

2020-01-09T14:57:27.001 INFO (1150-1834) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Group Policy Software Install Time: 0.11 seconds

2020-01-09T14:57:27.001 INFO (1150-1834) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Free Disk Space Available To User: 19 GB

2020-01-09T14:57:27.001 INFO (1150-1834) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] ***************************************************************************************

My question is why would my Start to Hive Load Time and Logon Start to Classes Hive Loaded Time be so high?    As I look at other posting in this thread, most are seeing around the 3-5 second range on both of these categories.    I have optimized using the VDI like a pro template and am on 1803.   Can anyone steer me in the right direction here?   Thanks

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sjesse
Leadership
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Shell load time covers alot of situations. What I like to do is set  the registry key

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System]

"DelayedDesktopSwitchTimeout"=dword:00000002

that was mentioned before to a very low or zero value. This basically removes the preparing windows screen, why that helps is you may be able to see whats going on behind it. I found an outdated logon script eating up 8 seconds of my logon time doing that. Also set the "display highly detailed status messages." gpo setting to see how long each service takes.

https://www.thewindowsclub.com/enable-verbose-status-message-windows

past that if you use DEM, there are more performance tools that may help find slow areas there. One thing to keep an eye on too is cpu usuage, I know for me with 2 cpus a good part of the login is 100%, if you have alot going on during startup and are trying to use 1 cpu, its really not enough. I'm getting around 30-40 seconds with 2 appstacks being attached using 2 cpus and 8gb of memory on 1809

DEMdev
VMware Employee
VMware Employee

Hi robsisk1972,

For those "4 minutes plus for some users" logons, how much time does DEM/UEM take? Can you share a DEM/UEM log file for such a slow logon, covering the full logon, at log level DEBUG?

robsisk1972
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

DEMdev​  Thanks for the reply.   Sorry it took awhile to respond.

So I get what your saying about the DEM.   Yes...I am persisting maybe a bit too much and GP logon times are yielding that.   However, my real problem is with Shell Load times and I have no idea why.   The following is what I observed this morning (this is not the 4 minute logon capture  as I don't have the new image with logging monitor set to all pools yet).

2020-01-16T07:43:28.414 INFO (0cc8-15d8) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Time: 149.36 seconds

2020-01-16T07:43:28.414 INFO (0cc8-15d8) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Hive Loaded Time: 3.88 seconds

2020-01-16T07:43:28.414 INFO (0cc8-15d8) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Logon Start To Classes Hive Loaded Time: 4.63 seconds

2020-01-16T07:43:28.414 INFO (0cc8-15d8) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Profile Sync Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-01-16T07:43:28.414 INFO (0cc8-15d8) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Windows Folder Redirection Apply Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-01-16T07:43:28.414 INFO (0cc8-15d8) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Shell Load Time: 103.49 seconds

2020-01-16T07:43:28.414 INFO (0cc8-15d8) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Total Logon Script Time: 0.00 seconds

2020-01-16T07:43:28.414 INFO (0cc8-15d8) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] User Policy Apply Time: 39 seconds

2020-01-16T07:43:28.414 INFO (0cc8-15d8) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Machine Policy Apply Time: 0 seconds

2020-01-16T07:43:28.414 INFO (0cc8-15d8) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Group Policy Software Install Time: 0.59 seconds

2020-01-16T07:43:28.414 INFO (0cc8-15d8) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] Free Disk Space Available To User: 17 GB

2020-01-16T07:43:28.414 INFO (0cc8-15d8) [LogonMonitor::LogSummary] ******************************************************************************************

It does not happen to everyone.  It is not pool specific.   They all use the same snapshot of the master.  

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robsisk1972
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Enthusiast

So...After a little testing it appears that attaching of app stacks from app volumes is the culprit.   If I remove any assignments of app stacks, the Shell Load time goes down to 6 seconds.   If I, add an app stack back, it bounces back up to 100+ app stack..   So far I have only tested with a few different app stacks to see if it specific to a certain app stack but seems to be happening to every app stack I have tired.    Should attaching app stacks (even 1) cause the boot time to add a minute and a half at logon? 

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sjesse
Leadership
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ARe you using appvolumes? That shell load time for me a lot of time is appstacks doing startup,  take a look at whats starting with autoruns. I've see apps add things to HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Active Setup\Installed Components\

which removing them can help. From the flings site, shell load time is

"Window shell to load, i.e. Explorer. Shell load time starts when we receive a notification from Windows shell load is starting. It ends when the taskbar window is created."

I'm getting around 90 seconds right now, and that's with multiple appstacks. If I pull them off I'm getting around 40 seconds with just UEM enabled. I'm hoping appvolumes 4.0 solves some of this.

robsisk1972
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

sjesse

Bingo...When you say you're getting "90 seconds right now" does that mean your Shell load time is equal to 90 or the logon experience for the user is equal to 90?

4.0 will probably be a double edged sword form some time after going GA and being tested in the real world.   I will be following it as people start adopting it but will not be a guinea pig.

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sjesse
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@robsisk1972 Sorry, I manually timed that from pushing the button for the desktop pool, to while the desktop icons show up and the desktop seems responsive. I was going to look into the reverse replicaiton flags for faster logins, but 4.0 supposedly was rewritten to improve logon screens  so my next step is getting that in a lab. The good part is you can still use 2.x appstacks while you migrate to it slowly.

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robsisk1972
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

So I ran another test today (today = A Saturday at 5:00 am when nobody else is trying to logon) and noticed my shell load time was down to from 100 seconds to 14 seconds.   Normally I am testing around 8:00 am on a weekday when 300 other users are logging in and touching the App Volumes Mgr.    So...I am starting to wonder if I need another App Volumes manager stood up with some load balancing?   I only have 1 right now for about 500 user but not all have app assignments.   sjesse​  How many APVs do you have?   Has anyone seen a shell load time reduction by adding another AVM with Netscaler LB?  I may toss this up on the APV forum space too.   Seems I'm getting off topic for what this thread is intended for.  thanks all!

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sjesse
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Check your vcenter load, I don't think more mangers help that much if your the load on them isn't high. Also check the appvolumes queue settings if they are enabled, the default is to do only 5 concurrent appstacks at a time which may be too low for your environment. In my case I have 5, most applications are in 1, one for office, 1 for visio, and two specialized ones for different licensed software.

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mrstorey303
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

FWIW, I've recently been playing around with FSLogix to handle persistence for our floating instant clone pools - the results have been amazing.  Login times are down to under 10 seconds (sometimes around 5), and the user experience is better since it's persisting / catching everything that we were missing with DEM.

We're still using DEM to provide conditional configurations, but no longer intend to use it for registry / file / profile persistence.