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jarsenea
Contributor
Contributor

Anyone else having these VDR issues?

I love the fact that VMware is providing VDR as part of the vSphere package. It's definitely a step in the right direction, albeit I'm still inclined to think this software hasn't been put through the ringer in terms of proper QA. I'm just trying to put out a feeler to see how many others have experienced some of the same issues I'm having.

To start, I'm backing up my VMs via a network share on a standalone Windows 2003 server that has a NAS attached to it.

Some of the issues I've noticed:

1) Backups take an inordinate amount of time. I can understand the first backup, but my VMs don't change very much from day to day. Most of the data being manipulated is located on RDMs are these are backed up using Tivoli, not VDR (I use VDR solely for the OS partitions). Each partition is approximately 25GB, there are 15 VMs and my backup window (10pm - 6pm) isn't sufficient to complete the process.

2) Integrity checks for the backups are taking a crazy amount of time and will usually stop due to my window being closed (see point #1)

3) I'm getting inconsistent "failures" for certain VMs (the report will simply state that a VM failed to backup, not much else). It also varies per night and not always the same VMs (not exactly sure if this is related to #1 where the window is closing while VDR is executing)

4) I had the most difficult time setting up the remote share from the VDR appliance in vSphere. The username and password would never be accepted (even though if I tried the same share with the same user/pass on a Windows machine, it would work fine). I finally narrowed down the problem to the simple fact that the VDR appliance can't handle passwords that have special characters in them (this password had an "@" and a ","). Looking at the console while attempting to mount the share would spit out a CIFS error -22. Changing the password to include only numbers and letters was sufficient to work around this issue.

5) Snapshots not being created for no apparent reason and thus failing the VDR process. I'm fully able to do a manual snapshot with or without the memory state, so I'm not sure why VDR can't do it. This issue is very intermittent. I had it often when I first setup VDR, but now it only happens every so often (without any type of consistency).

I think that's all I can think about for now..

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LHammonds
Contributor
Contributor

Mirko Huth, you'll probably be getting a PM from me very soon. Being a newbiew, I don't know what VCB is or if it utilizes DeDup but "reliable" certainly sounds nice. (EDIT: Found out all about VMware Consolidated Backup)

einstein-a-go-go, from what I've read in this thread, I cannot use PHD Virtual esXpress because my VMs are being run by ESXi. I will look into the other 2 products and see what can be done (quickly). As for opening an SR, I am at the point of thinking that, currently, VDR simply is not worth my time or effort.

( RANT WARNING )

Not being able to tell this "integrity" job to wait until the weekend or some other time is really making me upset. Integrity checks normally take several hours to complete? Really? EVERY DAY??? During peak backup times? Not what I'd call smart. And limiting backup space to 500 GB and only allowing 2 shares is basically telling me VDR is for no company other than a puny mom-n-pop store...assuming they don't care (or know) about the reliability aspect (it's not like the jobs will notify them that it failed).

( END RANT WARNING )

Like I said, the product seems like an awesome idea but in reality, it is vaporware to me.

Thanks,

LHammonds

EDIT #2: Oh, forgot to mention...the reason why I cannot use BackupExec is due to my BackupExec servers being virtualized. We were writing all our backups to external USB drives and I found out that VMs cannot access USB devices...and even if they could, there is only one USB port on the blade center and that would not be sufficient bandwidth for all our servers. We had Backup Exec piggy-backing on 3 servers because of the amount of time it takes for servers to be backed up (had to share the load). Originally, we were backing up to tape but backing up to external hard drives just like they were tape was much faster...especially restores.

EDIT #3: Thanks to Mirko Huth, I will be using VCB (which comes with VM infrastructure...just had to install it). I will have a script on my VCENTER blade that backs up all my VMs and I'll write them to an external storage which will then be archived (probably using BackupExec or maybe something more simple such as the freebie tool called SyncBack to offload the files to an external USB to be swapped out with offsite storage)

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einstein-a-go-g
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

Use vRanger Pro or Veeam Backup.

If you don't log an SR VMware will not know how bad the problem is, and will think vDR is good to go.

and in VMware vDRs defence, 500GB is the recommended max for CIFs shares for the dedupe store, if you look at creating additional virtual disks for the VMware Data Recovery appliance on Local or Shared VMFS using iSCSI, FC or NFS - you get it sorted.

If you can use scripts, and you are happy with them, no support when they go wrong thats fine, what does you Boss think running home-made scripts to do the job.

I have many clients who have issues with homebrew scripts, because of support issues.

Take a chill pill, and think and plan your Backup Strategy for VMware!

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Stevester
Contributor
Contributor

When is VDR 2.0 coming out? I am curious to know.

Stevester

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tlyczko
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

This is probably the best script out there for ESX / ESXi backups --

ghettoVCB.sh.

It is created and maintained by William Lam, a vExpert. Several support

messages per day.

The link is http://communities.vmware.com/docs/DOC-8760

Very well maintained, supported, etc. NOT a homebrew.

HTH Tom

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KBuchanan
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Yes to all except for 500GB VMDKs.

6 hosts, 45 guests

However, I am also running home grown script and we consider it our primary backup. I don't trust VDR to function as the only backup solution (yet).

But so far, it is running very well.

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KBuchanan
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

VDR v1.2 has been and is reliable for us - but I don't use it for my sole backup solution.

I recommend you evaluate it in your environment and decide if for yourself.

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chriswaltham
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

LHammonds: Why are your VMs so big? I don't think VDR was really designed to take snapshots of such large VMs. What makes up the bulk of the used space on the VMs that are >50GB each?

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Stevester
Contributor
Contributor

What new VDR release verison are you testing. I assume this a beta verison.

Stevester

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jarsenea
Contributor
Contributor

LHammonds: Why are your VMs so big? I don't think VDR was really designed to take snapshots of such large VMs. What makes up the bulk of the used space on the VMs that are >50GB each?

What an odd question to ask... ?

Whether or not VDR is "meant" for large VMs is irrelevant (it doesn't mention it anywhere in the documentation).

But furthermore, I (and I assume others) have many many VMs that are over 50GB in size. I have 3-4 file servers that are anywhere between 1TB-4TB in size. I also have a few web servers that occupy 250-750GB. Whatever backup solution I use for my VM infrastructure, I want to be damn sure it can backup whatever I throw at it.

Also, I've tried Veeam and vRanger and frankly, I don't like either of them. Veeam scares me with their synthetic full backup (no wonder they're forced to introduce their new "sure backup" technology.) and vRanger doesn't do any dedupe. Of course, not everyone has a Netapp at their disposal. Too bad PhD Virtual has been so slow at integrating ESXi support (not that I blame them, their whole raison d'etre was to install an agent on an ESX server, pretty hard to do on ESXi).

I think VDR has a LOT of potential. The FLR is fantastic and "just works". VDR 1.2 on our infrastructure has been very stable (granted, I don't backup my 1-4TB file servers, but I DO backup by web servers) and haven't had any issues. That, and after 4 weeks of backing up about 20 or so VMs, my dedupe ratio is absolutely fantastic (although VDR does incorrectly report it, but it's still fantastic).

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tlyczko
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

PhD Virtual esXpress does install something to the service console, but

the backups per se are done by 'temporary' VMs, called 'VBAs,' the same

way vDR does its backups.

It is a good, fast app, and they are working on ESXi backup, the number

one requested feature. Smiley Happy

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jarsenea
Contributor
Contributor

My current plan is to use VDR until esXpress is available for ESXi later this year (hopefully). I've heard great things from esXpress and I love the fact that it's integrated into vCenter like VDR.

I will definitely be one of the first in line to try it. Until then, VDR 1.2 is looking good and i only have a few gripes left:

- 1TB limit on Datastores

- Maximum 2 datastores (I could live with 2 datastores if I could put them 2TB each, I would simply create a few more VDR appliances).

- No e-mail notifications

- Integrity check needs to be scheduled.

I'm really liking VDR 1.2 (compared to my OP). Speaking of which, I never thought the conversation would get this long Smiley Happy

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Mirko_Huth
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Not only the most requested feature. Vmware announced that vsphere 4.1 will be the last version with full esx. Higher version will only have ESXi.

So, they are forced to add ESXi support if they like it or not...

Mirko

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einstein-a-go-g
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

It might be a fanastic solution for some, I'm sure....but

I was referring to Commercially Supported, we'd get shot if I went to some our our blue-chip clients, and it doesn't matter how well the script works, it it was sold by VMware/Cisco/EMC/NetApp it would be accepted.

but download from the net and used - No!

In their eyes, homebrew, homemade, A "Heath Robinson" - it won't cut the mustard with them, we've been there!

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einstein-a-go-g
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

That's exactly what my clients want, integration with vCenter.

vRanger now adds an annotation - at least.

But my clients still what the Backup function in vCenter, okay vDR is just, if you select another view, it would be nice, if each VM was flagged as backed-up correctly in main view - maybe a later feature when all is well.....

currently testing vDR 1.2 here in a small office with a mix of Win2k3, Win2k8, WinNT4, Win2k, various Linux servers, Domain Controllers, Exchange Servers, quite a small 2TB across 36 VMs.

vDR 1.2 is backing up to a vmdk placed on a single LUN on a 2GB fibre channel SAN. (yes this is expensive storage for backup, but it's free storage at present, might move to local vmfs on the server eventually)

Once the first backups have been created for the VMs, the rate of change of the VMs is small (on a daily basis), and the backup Window backing up ALL 36 VMs, is about 18 minutes.

throughput is average - 11GB/min per VM

Integrity check takes 1.9TB/min

it's all very good at present ......

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tlyczko
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

The better the backup destination, the better/faster backups are.

I have two NAS boxes, one has 2 NICs, more RAM, and better/faster CPU

than the other, esXpress backups to this NAS are 50-100% faster!!

esXpress adds vCenter annotations to all VMs backed up or skipped

(because they are powered off).

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tlyczko
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Yes, I know that's policy at some places, you are entirely right.

Many solutions fit many different places etc.

Tom

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LHammonds
Contributor
Contributor

"what does you Boss think running home-made scripts to do the job."

I'm quite handy with scripting and programming. We have many of our processes currently automated because of them. So basically, they are not a problem at my shop. They tend to work because they are designed and documented well.

"I have many clients who have issues with homebrew scripts, because of support issues."

That either falls back onto the base CLI utilities, hardware or the scripts themselves. If script issues, that really falls back to the design and documentation of them.

"Take a chill pill, and think and plan your Backup Strategy for VMware!"

I'm not paid to take pills. We have a VM backup solution which will be implemented on Aug 2nd. However, we were told that VDR could be used in the mean time...which is obviously false on many levels.

"Why are your VMs so big? I don't think VDR was really designed to take snapshots of such large VMs. What makes up the bulk of the used space on the VMs that are >50GB each?"

As previously stated...what's it matter?

But here is a sample of the larger servers I have converted so far:

  • Database that has Cognos and analyzes years of data, cubes, etc. (200 GB)

  • Database for accounting and purchasing (120 GB)

  • Database for Document storage and retrieval (scans / OCR) (150 GB)

  • Database for Lab (225 GB)

  • File and Print server (250 GB)

  • Large App server (480 GB)

  • Database server for large app server (200 GB)

EDIT: For those that are curious, I now have backups being created via an automated batch file (using VCB) which sends me a log detailing how long it took for each backup and if the backup was successful or not. So far, initial tests seem quite positive and I should be fully backed up in no time. Thanks to everyone with the helpful suggestions. This should keep me safe until the Double-Take contractors arrive to setup their software.

LHammonds

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KBuchanan
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

>What new VDR release verison are you testing. I assume this a beta verison.

Stevester...not sure if you were directing your question to me - but nonetheless...I'm running v1.2

Kevin

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Stevester
Contributor
Contributor

I thought VMware released a newer VDR 1.3. or greater which is why I asked lol!!!!!

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vmbru
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Kevin,

We too are beta testing vdr (currently on build 1.2.0.1213). We created a 1.36TB Openfiler NFS destination.

For those only wanting to do only 1 IC a week, edit your datarecovery.ini (IntegrityCheckInterval=7), need build 1.2.0.1213 for that to work though.

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