New MS Licencing Changes

[davidbarclay]

So, what are everyone's thoughts? What do you intend to do, if anything?

For those how missed it, Microsoft laced up the gloves and threw the first big punch yesterday. Vmware's response is here:

http://www.vmware.com/solutions/whitepapers/msoft_licensing_wp.html

I expect this thread to be a long one, so let's leave off the MS bashing and discuss what we can do about it and how we can adjust our strategies.

I am mostly concerned about the vMotion implications and how best to MS licence a solution.

Dave

[kimono]

On the MS Virtualization note I came across this video today...

http://soapbox.msn.com/video.aspx?vid=5119240c-6579-4827-8338-7f5539930402

Confirms the capabilities of hot migration, and 8-core VMs. Noticed the crack about "our biggest competitor" not supporting the latter.

But their System Center is not a shine on Virtual Center, looks like every other danged & bland MS product.

[Nicke]

But the problem is the comparison of the products.

Why would one want to compare a product that's been out for months with a product not yet brought to market?

I'm sure VMware has some cool new features out come launch date for Microsoft.

/Nicke

[fontyyy]

Do anyone running a normal system really care about 8 core VM's right now? Clearly ESX will support it when (if?) there's a need.

I've P2V'd production systems that were on 4 core (twin Xeon) bare metal onto single vCPU's and run them on the same spec hosts (even on VMware Server not ESX in some cases) as they came from with zero problems and no complaints.

The staff using these systems are unaware of any change.

I'd foolishly thought the idea here is to utilise some of the current (near 90% I'd guess) wasted CPU resources and stop buying a box for every flippin thing that comes along.

8 core VM's..........to run what exactly?

[jasonboche]

8 core VM's..........to run what exactly?

The Microsoft litigation file server maybe.

[TomHowarth]

Longhorn

[GBromage]

The Microsoft litigation file server maybe.

Nah, you'd need a whole data center for that one!

[sc_2111]

Since October 2006 datacenter edition enable running unlimited number of windows 2003 std,ent,datacenter edition in VM .

So licensing the hosts with datacenter ed would solve any licensing problem ( or not ) ?

Stefano

[davidbarclay]

Datacentre Ed. doesn't suit all customers and situations (it can cost more in some situations depending on configuration/load).

Dave

[davidbarclay]

...and that's just the basic edition. Wait for ULTIMATE edition

Dave

[davidbarclay]

...and I hope they get graphics virtualisation working by 1.0, otherwise Aero won't work - oh noooo, no aero - how will I admin my servers!?!

Dave

[jurajfox]

Just use the calculator on Microsofts site to see if it works for you

[GBromage]

...and I hope they get graphics virtualisation

working by 1.0, otherwise Aero won't work - oh noooo,

no aero - how will I admin my servers!?!

I doubt it. Because if they fully virtualise the graphics sub-system, it would upset all the lovely DRM stuff they've put into it.

There's no point having an encrypted path all the way to the graphics display, if it turns out to be a virtualised display that can be sniffed or ripped..

[davidbarclay]

Firstly I just want to clarify I was being sarcastic about wanting Aero.

Graphics virtualisation will happen. It's not about encrypting, sniffing or ripping (how is that different from RCP, ICA etc?) - it's about giving the guest access to the capabilities of the hardware.

Look at VMware Workstation now (traditionally the "whats next in ESX" vehicle) - already got advanced graphics support (Aero does work!)...won't take long to go all the way.

Dave

[GBromage]

I realise you were being sarcastic.

I just reckon it would be really cool if MS had put all this work into DRM, and it could be defeated so simply. (Not that it hasn't been circumvented or defeated other ways.)

[ejewett]

The unlimited virtualization rights with Datacenter Edition applies to all virtualization technologies, including ESX.

See, http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/news/bulletins/datacenterhighavail.mspx.

"[b]Licensing does not depend on which virtualization technology is used.[/b] With all processors in a server licensed for Windows Server 2003 R2, Datacenter Edition, you can run one instance of the software in a physical operating system environment and an unlimited number of instances in virtual operating system environments. With VMWare GSX Server or SWsoft Virtuosso, this means you can run one physical instance plus unlimited virtual instances. With VMWare ESX Server, it means you can run unlimited virtual instances[/b] because there is no need for a physical instance."

The way the economics works out, Datacenter is less expensive than Standard or Enterprise editions of Windows Server if you are running more than 4 VMs per socket. The cost of Enterprise and Datacenter are about the same at 4 VMs per socket but Datacenter gives room to add more at no additional cost. See the calculator at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/calculator.mspx.

[ejewett]

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding of Microsoft licensing. It applies equally to all virtualization technologies. For example, the 4 free VMs with Windows Server Enterprise Edition and unlimited VMs with Windows Server Datacenter Edition applies equally to ESX, VMware Server, Virtuosso, Xen, OEM's hypervisors, etc....

What you may be missing with VMotion is that Microsoft server licenses are connected to a server not the VMs. This means you can move VMs between any server you want as long as the target servers have adequate licenses. It works the same with Microsoft's clustering technology and failing over / moving physical workloads between servers, which is essentially what VMotion does.

See, http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/news/bulletins/datacenterhighavail.mspx.

"[b]Licensing does not depend on which virtualization technology is used.[/b] With all processors in a server licensed for Windows Server 2003 R2, Datacenter Edition, you can run one instance of the software in a physical operating system environment and an unlimited number of instances in virtual operating system environments. With VMWare GSX Server or SWsoft Virtuosso, this means you can run one physical instance plus unlimited virtual instances. With VMWare ESX Server, it means you can run unlimited virtual instances[/b] because there is no need for a physical instance."

[virgilwashere]

Hi all,

Has anything changed regarding 'workload mobility' (aka VMotion) with the pending release of Hyper-V ?

The Microsoft Virtual Machine Technology FAQ (http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/highlights/virtualization/faq.mspx[/url]) has not been updated recently... "Updated: September 11, 2006"

Or conversely, are we still limited to 90 days between VMotions (or permanent hardware failure)?

Virgil

[dmorgan]

The problem with the Datacenter edition, to the best of my understanding, is that it is only sold bundled with hardware. We already have blades in a chassis installed with ESX server on them. I need to install a bunch more Server 2003 OS's, so I looked into purchasing DataCenter. Only can find it at HP, or Dell. Called Dell to get a quote. Found out that they only sell it when you purchase it with hardware. So if you have existing infrastructure, and want to consolidate with VMWare, it sucks that you have to buy MORE hardware in order to consolidate, if you want to take advantage of the DataCenter licensing structure.

If you found this or any other post helpful please consider the use of the Helpfull/Correct buttons to award points

[Dave_Mishchenko]

You can purchase the datacenter edition through the volume licensing program as well. Here's the part number for the Open Business edition - Mfr Part #: P71-01015 .

[dmorgan]

Thanks, this is exactly what I needed. For the volume licensing, are you aware if I have 4 ESX servers, each with 2 physical procs, quad cores, if I order 8 Datacenter licenses, that should qualify for the 5 minimum for volume licensing? Also, with VMotion, this wont be a problem? Lastly, if one of these ever had to be V2P converted, would the license work, even temporarily? Thanks again for the assistance.

Don

If you found this or any other post helpful please consider the use of the Helpfull/Correct buttons to award points