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IlikeOldWin
Contributor
Contributor

Windows 98 SE installation fails

I got a Windows 98 SE iso disc. When I install it it was fine until it comes to the final step of the setup it throws to me those weird errors:

pastedImage_1.png

pastedImage_2.png

Some information relating to my VMware Workstation and hardware if it's necessary:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3500U

OS: Microsoft Windows 10 Enterprise build 18363 (November 2019 update, version 1909)

VMware Workstation version: Pro 15.5

46 Replies
dariusd
VMware Employee
VMware Employee

Ah, I think the forum software munched up the text for us, and broke things.  Let's try again:

    cpuid.1.edx = "----:----:----:----:----:----:----:--0-"

Putting that into your .vmx might allow your Win98 VM to run on your new CPU with WS 15.5.  Be very careful that your text editor doesn't replace the regular double-quotes with "smart" quotes and the multiple-hyphens with funky dashes, as happened when I attempted to quote the post from the other forum...

If your VM does not power on afterwards, please post back with the exact error message you receive.

Thanks,

--

Darius

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dariusd
VMware Employee
VMware Employee

Playing around with retro software seems like a fine way to alleviate pandemic lock-in boredom, if you ask me.  (I'll surely be spending some extra time working on improving Workstation's Sound Blaster 16 support...)

Upgrading to WS 15.5.x will probably render your VM unusable (or at least unreliable) because it will once again be exposed to your processor's defective VMI support in hardware virtualization.

I posted an update elsewhere in this thread which might help with WS 15.5.x, though.  It would be great if someone could try it out and report back:  Re: Windows 98 SE installation fails​.  I don't have access to an affected CPU, so I can't test it myself.

--

Darius

Majinkensword
Contributor
Contributor

Upgraded to VMWare 15 and did your suggestion but still experienced the same issue:

pastedImage_0.png

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NDLunchbox2
Contributor
Contributor

I read about masking out the broken instruction on another forum, tried that - didn't help for me either.

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dariusd
VMware Employee
VMware Employee

Could you possibly attach the vmware.log resulting from your attempt to run the VM on WS 15.5.x with the cpuid option set?  I'd like to see what we presented in the guest CPUID information.

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Darius

Majinkensword
Contributor
Contributor

Ok, let me try it again, but I might be delayed since I'm kind of busy IRL. But will definitely do this and update you. Appreciate the assist!

Update/Edit: Found the time and did this. Here you go, just took the log and configuration file.

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dariusd
VMware Employee
VMware Employee

Thanks muchly.  It shows that we are correctly masking the VME bit, but unfortunately that is not enough to get Win98 working... either it is a different problem entirely from the WinXP issue mentioned in the other thread, or Win98 is not checking the VME bit...

The other interesting thing is that the Wikipedia page section for Virtual 8086 mode enhancements (VME) mentions the VME erratum in the Ryzen CPUs and says it is fixed in the 2000 series, but yours is a 2000 series CPU (and ILikeOldWin's is a 3000 series CPU)... so my thoughts are now tending towards it being a different problem entirely.

If you are getting the same sort of "program has performed an illegal operation" error as ILikeOldWin showed in the first post of this thread, could you perhaps screenshot the error message and then scroll the Details>> window and screenshot it again so that I can see all of the contents of that details pane?  (I forget whether that window is resizeable, but if so, that might be another option... as long as I get all the "Details" from one failure.)

If you're simply OK with staying at an earlier version of Workstation (where I guess our Binary Translation engine – absent from newer releases – is saving you from a physical CPU quirk), that's fine... I'm not going to push you to mess around with this any further... but with your help there is still a chance (OK, maybe a tiny chance...) that I might be able to guide you towards some sort of a solution to get you going with a more modern version of Workstation.  (It's also still entirely possible that we're simply hosed due to a CPU quirk... and that would be unfortunate.)

Thanks for your patience,

--

Darius

NDLunchbox2
Contributor
Contributor

FYI, I have a Ryzen 3700X and have all the same issues, so the microcode update they released for Zen and rolled into Zen+ and Zen2 doesn't seem to address this problem.

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Majinkensword
Contributor
Contributor

I'm down in using the latest VMWare since I paid for it amd using an older version makes me sad I paid for the new one.

Anyway, I'm tinkering with VirtualBox too... just about to finish and will get back to VMWare. Will edit this message once I get update. Thanks!

dariusd

Update: So here's the latest... after I click on the error message, it just hangs and stays based on the last screenshot. I have to turn off the virtual machine and power back on, then same error message. Rinse, repeat.

VirtualBox on the other hand, is able to continue when you switch off virtualization; however, after the successful login and after reboot, you get the same error message as VMWare. It is very difficult to troubleshoot as I'm not really good in reading logs and the like... so I really appreciate your help. Smiley Happy

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dariusd
VMware Employee
VMware Employee

Thanks for the update.

It was a bit of a long shot asking for the Win98 crash details.  Win98 was not renowned for its stability after any sort of crash, and expecting stability when it's clearly suffering from CPU compatibility issues was ... very optimistic.  Smiley Wink

Next question... I have seen some other folks discussing host hangs/crashes in addition to the VM guest issues.  Are you encountering any host stability issues there?  Or is it just the VM guest which is wobbly?

Thanks,

--

Darius

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Majinkensword
Contributor
Contributor

dariusd

Hmm, I noticed this fairly recently and it only happens on 7zip, WinRAR, VirtualBox and sometimes, VMWare... for example, with 7zip open, I try to go to a directory with and ISO file or CDimage, it will hang, the same thing happens on the other apps I mentioned.

I actually installed VMware and Alcohol120% almost at the same time when I noticed this happening so it might be related but who know.

Aside from that, none really. I have other screenshots in case it helps (changed Processor settings on VMWare)....

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creopard
Contributor
Contributor

Using version 10 of VMware gives me the following issue on Win 10 1909:

Upon dragging a file from the Win 10 desktop to the Win 98 desktop within the VM, the whole Win 10 machine locks up.

(I once managed to drag'n'drop a file successfully to the VM, however it locked up upon the second file.)

Anybody else facing this issue?

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Majinkensword
Contributor
Contributor

Haven't really tried that. Try VMWare9 which I see was the last official version to support Win98.

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creopard
Contributor
Contributor

Ok, so here's a complete update of how to Install Windows 98 SE with a Ryzen CPU in VMware 12:

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.creopard.de%2F2020%2F05%2...

TL;DR:

1. use VMware 12.5.9 for Win10 hosts (version 15.x won't let you specify the "Virtualization engine" any more)

2. set "Virtualization engine" manually to "Intel VT-x or AMD-V"

3. run Windows 98 installation until it crashes

4. reboot into safe mode

5. disable 32-bit mode for drives and reboot

6. let windows 98 finish its installation process to the end

7. reboot to MS-DOS and replace file "ESDI_506.PDR" (i.e. 48-bit LBA fix) in C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS

8. enable 32-bit mode for drives again

9. success

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Dave12123
Contributor
Contributor

7. reboot to MS-DOS and replace file "ESDI_506.PDR" (i.e. 48-bit LBA fix) in C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS

replace file "ESDI_506.PDR" with what?

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Rezso17
Contributor
Contributor

Try to setting the date in the BIOS! (1999-01-01)

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rileyz
Contributor
Contributor

Test and working with the link mentioned by @creopard 

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.creopard.de%2F2020%2F05%2...

 

Was able to install Win98 and get passed the error, to complete the install.

At the explorer.exe/shell error, shutdown > boot safe mode > disable 32 protected something.

vmWare Workstation 16.2 on intel CPU. Using hardware config 16.2x, 64mb Ram, usb removed, virtualise intel vt checked/ticked, disable memory page trimming checked/ticked.  All other vmx settings standard.  

Just need to find the ESDI_506.PDR file now, the link has the file, but wont download for some reason 🤷‍♂️

 

 

< spongebob: 5 mins later >
*well more like 5 hours.

Updated v2.0

Ugggh, what a pain in the A. I got it working finally. 

creopard, thanks for the fixed link, but unf the iso is corrupt, boo. But I did find another source.

 

Prep

 

Windows 98 SE vmWare Workstation 16.2 Quick Guide

Take snaps shots where appropriate.

  • Create VM using 16.2 hardware compatibly, 64mb ram, remove USB controller, network card not connected at power on - all other settings standard.
  • Sound workaround. 
    Edit VMX, and remove pciBridgeN lines, where N is a number. Should be 7pci bridges.
    With the vmx file closed, edit the vmx with the following. 
    remove any line with pciBridgeN, where N is a number. 
    Once all remove, add this at the end of the vmx file
    pciBridge0.present = "FALSE"
    pciBridge1.present = "FALSE"
    pciBridge2.present = "FALSE"
    pciBridge3.present = "FALSE"
    pciBridge4.present = "FALSE"
    pciBridge5.present = "FALSE"
    pciBridge6.present = "FALSE"
    pciBridge7.present = "FALSE"

    *note, you can use this workaround above in Win95 to get the sound working. You still need to install the drivers as mentioned in the prep.

  • Install Windows 98 SE > ..dialogs etc.. > explorer.exe error, shell32.ddl error in background.
  • Shutdown VM.
  • Boot VM into safe mode, press ctrl at bios.
  • My Computer > Properties > Performance > File System > Trouble Shooting > check/tick Disable all 32bit mode disk drivers (aka 32bit thingee). Apply > Close > Reboot.
  • Win98 install will resume at Region/Date picker.
  • Win98 install completes, and logs onto desktop.
  • Shutdown. Boot from bootable Win99se disc > boot with cdrom support.
  • VM mount the bhdd31.iso, from dos cmd, dir to check iso can be read.
  • use dos command to copy the file: copy D:\ESDI_506.PDR C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS
  • Shutdown vm, and unmount iso.
  • Boot the vm, get to the desktop.
  • My Computer > Properties > Performance > File System > Trouble Shooting > uncheck/untick Disable all 32bit mode disk drivers. Aplly > Close > Reboot.
  • Desktop loads. Single error pops up - powrprof.dll, okay the dialog.
  • My Computer > check cdrom exsits.
  • Install vmWare Tools, okay to the two dialogs about video driver and mouse driver manual actions. Complete install, don't reboot yet.
  • My Computer > Properties > Performance > File System > Trouble Shooting > check/tick Disable all 32bit mode disk drivers. Apply > Close.
  • Reboot to desktop.
  • Update graphics driver: My Computer > Properties > Device Manager > Display Adaptors > Properties > Driver > Update Driver > specify location > C:\Program Files\vmware\vmware tools\drivers\video
  • Update mouse driver: My Computer > Properties > Device Manager > Mouse > Properties > Driver > Update Driver > specify location > C:\Program Files\vmware\vmware tools\drivers\mouse
  • Reboot to desktop.
  • Adjust screen size to suit.
  • Install sound driver with SBPCI128Setupus_w9x.exe. Do not reboot, wait for SoundBlaster registration shortcut to be removed from desktop.
  • Reboot. Enjoy glorious sound on boot!
  • Enable Network Adaptor (connect nic via vmware). (optional, not required to do IE5 MSN Access bypass).
  • Fix IE5 to bypass stupid MSN Access dialog. Right Click IE icon > Properties > Connections > Setup > I want to connect through LAN > Connect through LAN > Auto proxy > No to mail account > Uncheck box > Finish.
  • Start IE5, goto google to test. Try another website and laugh lols at loading issues. (optional)
  • At this point everything is working, but the 32bit mode disk is still disabled. When I enabled, I get the explorer.exe issue, and the desktop dosen't load. I guess this is a okay trade off for having a working Win98se.

 

I'm still working on the explorer issue, but I hope this quick guide helps someone else out. Will update this post if I manage to fixed the explorer.exe/shell issue with 32bit mode disk drivers enabled.

 

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creopard
Contributor
Contributor

@rileyz  sorry, I just realized that the download links won't work with Google translated pages. 

Use this original link instead:

https://www.creopard.de/download/get/esdi_506/47.htm

 

 

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Louis-92
Contributor
Contributor

Hello everybody,

I have just bought a new PC with AMD Ryzen 5 5500U with Radeon Graphics 2.10 GHz.

Windows 98 SE installation failed at every attempt and for the 2 cases : installation from scratch and opening virtual disk saved from the broken PC using VMware 15.5.1. Installations fail with VMware 15.5.1 and AMD Ryzen 5 5500U too ! Unfortunately for me and for others !

I understood from this community that no easy solution is available for VMware 15.5.1. Am I right ?

Thanks and regards.

Louis-92

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ender_
Expert
Expert

You need to patch your Windows 98 VM with patcher9x to get it to run on new CPUs.