14 Replies Latest reply on Jun 20, 2018 1:44 PM by oninoshiko

    New servers, ESXi 6.0 or 6.5?

    HendersonD Hot Shot

      We will be purchasing 7 new HPE DL380 Gen10 or Dell R740 servers in the next month. In production it will be two servers for server virtualization and three for VDI. The three for VDI will have the nVidia Tesla cards installed. In our DR site there will be two new servers. I am still debating whether to install ESXi 6.0 or 6.5 on these new servers. Here are the considerations:

      1. Thick/C# client versus web client. My understanding is there are actually two versions of the web client:
        1. One web client uses Adobe Flash and is considered buggy and slow. On this forum there is a post entitled "vSphere Web Client SUCKs so bad that my experience managing and supporting VMware has turn to SH**!". This is the single most commented on post ever. There is enormous anger in the community about how bad this web based client is. We are still running ESXi 6.0 on our 5 year old servers and using the C# client
          https://communities.vmware.com/thread/477686
        2. There is an HTML5 client that is considered stable and fast enough. The problem is currently it is missing a bunch of features forcing people to still use the Flash based client often. Rumor has it that when ESXi 6.7 comes out, they will be releasing a full featured version of the HTML5 client.
      2. I did look on VMWare's hardware compatibility site and either ESXi 6.0 or 6.5 are supported on the latest servers from HPE and Dell
      3. The vSphere client (whether C#, Web based Flash, or HTML5) hooks into a vCenter server. Right now our two vCenter servers run under Windows Server 2012 R2. VMWare has ditched this setup going forward and has released a Linux based appliance for vCenter. It would be nice to jump to this Linux appliance but that means going to ESXi 6.5
      4. The desire to be current on our infrastructure which is ESXi 6.5
      5. Lastly, there is still a major bug in ESXi 6.5 even though it was released a year ago. This bug may be fixed by the time we purchase but it may not be. This bug can lead to a pink screen of death on an ESXi host
        https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/2151749

       

      Suggestions on which way to jump?

       

        • 1. Re: New servers, ESXi 6.0 or 6.5?
          msripada Expert
          vExpert

          Hello Henderson,

           

          Thank you for reaching  VMware community..

           

          With respect to webclient, you are correct. Flash based may not exist in next numbered release as per the below blog. The HTML5 is considered fast and am using everyday for my test purposes and did not face issues for my routines. I might not use extensive features as others but for basis management works, it is still reliable and fast. I hope VMware heard feedbacks about the flash webclient from customers and got this new one (html5) as replacement to make it easy for us.

           

          Goodbye, vSphere Web Client! - VMware vSphere Blog

           

          Adobe is deprecating Flash and html5 does lot of major functions for day-day activities.. Only advanced features or setup configurations can be done via the flash which I think is okay to do..

           

          With respect to PSOD, it is a known issue with respect to the article which you have shared in 6.5 and I am sure VMware will be working on a permanent fix for this. Workaround is already shared to customer on the same KB.

           

          Windows vCenter is replacing with appliance, it is not true that VMware enforced to upgrade the ESXi hosts to 6.5, with VCSA 6.5 you can still use the ESXi host 6.0.

           

          I hope you can still use the ESXi 6.5 ensuring to have updated BIOS, firmware and drivers to the latest compatibility levels.

           

          Thanks,

          MS

          • 2. Re: New servers, ESXi 6.0 or 6.5?
            HendersonD Hot Shot

            We have a simple environment so I am leaning towards ESXi 6.5 thinking that the HTML5 client will be able to handle most of our needs. You are correct that I can use the vCenter appliance for ESXi 6.0 but I think I would need a separate Update Manager server which I would rather avoid

            • 3. Re: New servers, ESXi 6.0 or 6.5?
              msripada Expert
              vExpert

              VCSA 6.5 has inbuilt update manager.

               

              VMware vSphere Update Manager 6.5 is now embedded into the vCenter Server Appliance - VMware vSphere Blog

               

              For windows vCenter 6.5, you need to install a separate update manager instance or can update the existing one if you have one.

               

              Thanks,

              MS

              • 4. Re: New servers, ESXi 6.0 or 6.5?
                RickC3 Lurker

                With reference to KB2151749, we have been waiting for a fix for some time.   We were told mid-November, then before end of November, then first week of December, and then mid-December.  Apparently the fix will come via 6.5 U2, but they seem to be having a problem getting that update out the door.   Until then, we sit on 6.0 U2 which is quite frustrating.

                • 5. Re: New servers, ESXi 6.0 or 6.5?
                  cjscol Expert

                  Personally I would go the 6.5 route. I'm currently using 6.0 and use the Flash based Web Client for most operations.  There are certain things you cannot do in the C# client that have to be done in the web client, e.g. configuring any new functionality that came out since 5.1 such as Enhanced vMotion, LACP on vDS.

                   

                  Is the KB article you referenced only relevant where you have upgraded an ESXi host to 6.5 and not relevant to a fresh install of 6.5?

                   

                  You can use the vCSA with 6.0 but of course it is easier to migrate from a Windows vCenter to a 6.5 vCSA. But there is nothing stopping you building a new vCSA 6.0 and adding your new hosts to that and migrating your existing hosts to this new vCSA.

                  • 6. Re: New servers, ESXi 6.0 or 6.5?
                    HendersonD Hot Shot

                    I believe the bug in KB2151749 affect new installs as well as upgrades. It sounds like it will be fixed in the near future before we actually get our new hardware. I am still leaning towards 6.5. I do know that VMWare has an active beta going on right now. My hope is that beta will result in ESXi 6.7 (or whatever they end up calling it) with a full featured HTML5 client. Putting an older version of ESXi on brand new hardware seems like a step back, another reason I think it will be 6.5.

                    • 7. Re: New servers, ESXi 6.0 or 6.5?
                      daphnissov Guru
                      Community WarriorsvExpert

                      6.5 is generally stable, however as pointed out, do be aware of the current bug affecting 10 GbE adapters. Although this is scheduled to b fixed very, very soon, factor that into your decision.

                      • 8. Re: New servers, ESXi 6.0 or 6.5?
                        oninoshiko Novice

                        The HTML5 client isn't much better then the Flash client. It's certainly not on par with the thick client.

                         

                        1. It doesn't update consistently
                        2. It doesn't LOAD consistently
                        3. If you call vmWare support about it for any reason their official response is "don't use that, use the Flash client"

                         

                        If anything, that thread is kind and diplomatic. While I have a 6.5 VCSA, I have the ESXi on an old version specifically so I can point the thick client at them when I need to (and YES I've needed to).

                        • 9. Re: New servers, ESXi 6.0 or 6.5?
                          daphnissov Guru
                          vExpertCommunity Warriors

                          You seem to be talking about the HTML5 ESXi embedded host client here. If so, they release updates via the Fling channel semi-regularly. The latest being v1.29. If you're having issues with that embedded host client, update it from the Fling version.

                          • 10. Re: New servers, ESXi 6.0 or 6.5?
                            oninoshiko Novice

                            So, you're solution to the unusablity of the (supposedly) "supported" release software, is to patch it to (and I'm being generous here) an UNSUPPORTED BETA? In a production environment?

                             

                            Are you out of your mind?

                             

                            Here's a real solution: How about vmWare actually fix the s@%t we've been b(#)@_$%@g about for FOUR F&$#*(G YEARS in the supported release.

                            • 11. Re: New servers, ESXi 6.0 or 6.5?
                              daphnissov Guru
                              vExpertCommunity Warriors

                              If you're finding the embedded host client to be unusable (something with which I cannot agree as I've used it dozens of times in live deployments), then it's far better to explain *how* and *why* it's unusable with specific details so it can be fixed and improved rather than just to complain and rant about it. Also, it is by no means a beta. The releases are cumulative in nature.

                              • 12. Re: New servers, ESXi 6.0 or 6.5?
                                oninoshiko Novice

                                Did you not read my original post? Let me repeat it for you: the HTML5 client from VCSA 6.5,

                                 

                                1. doesn't consistently refresh
                                2. doesn't constantly load
                                3. Support doesn't support it, to the point of telling you not to use it

                                 

                                On top of that:

                                 

                                Have you read the License that you agree to when you install a Fling? If anything calling one an unsupported beta is a kindness, it's certainly completely inappropriate to be recommending one for a production environment (particularly when you consider the license of a fling proibits you from useing it for "product development or any other commercial purpose").

                                 

                                And the reason we complain and rant, the reason we have been for FOUR YEARS, is that we had a client that worked fairly well, and they replaced it with this garbage. It would be different if they had actually taken to heart any of the feed back given over the last FOUR YEARS (did I mention we've been complaining about how awful this is for FOUR YEARS? Seriously, that's how long the thread OP linked has been around.), but they didn't. Instead they forced everyone off a working client onto this hot mess.

                                • 13. Re: New servers, ESXi 6.0 or 6.5?
                                  daphnissov Guru
                                  Community WarriorsvExpert

                                  I did read your original post, and here's what you say in the last sentence:

                                   

                                  If anything, that thread is kind and diplomatic. While I have a 6.5 VCSA, I have the ESXi on an old version specifically so I can point the thick client at them when I need to (and YES I've needed to).

                                  This suggested you were complaining about the ESXi embedded host client and thus had them on an older version of either 6.5 o 6.0 which supported the C# client.

                                   

                                  Regardless, to each of your points:

                                   

                                  1. doesn't consistently refresh

                                  Submit feedback in the HTML5 client.

                                   

                                  2. doesn't constantly load

                                  Submit feedback and open a case (see #3).

                                   

                                  3. Support doesn't support it, to the point of telling you not to use it

                                  True for the Fling; not true for the HTML5 client built into vCSA 6.5. Support absolutely supports the built-in version to the extent you're using features that are contained.

                                   

                                  Furthermore to all of your gripes, using the Fling is possible side-by-side with the embedded HTML5 vSphere client and the HTML5 client has proven production ready for hundreds if not thousands of environments. Is it officially supported? Again, no. Does this mean it's inappropriate to run in a side-by-side fashion? Certainly not. If you're going to sit there and complain, then provide feedback that does something about it but in a constructive way.Wailing and moaning solves no problems.

                                  • 14. Re: New servers, ESXi 6.0 or 6.5?
                                    oninoshiko Novice

                                    No, that's not what that suggests at all. What that suggest is I haven't upgraded it BECAUSE I KNOW I CAN DEPEND ON C# CLIENT TO WORK. I can't use the C# client on VCSA 6.5, so I make sure ESXi is old enough to use is in a pinch. Which happens. Regularly.

                                     

                                    1. I have submitted Feedback. I've submitted feedback many times over the last FOUR YEARS. It's done no good because VMWARE ISN'T ACTUALLY PAYING ANY ATTENTION. We have four year old thread with many people complaining about how god awful it is. I'm glad you got it to work for you. It doesn't for MANY of us.
                                    2. I may have mentioned this, but I've submitted feedback. I've opened cases, which is how I know their official policy is you shouldn't use the HTML5 client.
                                    3. It *IS* true for the HTML5 client, as I had a vmWare support rep tell me I shouldn't use it as recently as LAST WEEK. So, if it's not SUPPOSED to be true, then vmWare needs to do some serious training of their support center staff.

                                     

                                    As to flings: the license for them explicitly says you can ONLY use it for evaluation, and NOT in a commercial capacity. THAT makes it completely inappropriate to recommend. If vmWare's policy is that it is okay to use these in a production environment, they need to amend the license to clarify that.