vSphere Web Client is so bad that my experience managing and supporting VMware has turn to....

[kgottleib]

Purpose of this post is simple and obvious...  bring back development to thick client.  THANKS!

[robert_williams]

We are converting some of our VMware hosts to Microsoft hyper-V 2016 cluster. This is one reason why, they don't care about their customers. It is sad that their support people say don't use the web because it is too slow. how many hours of my life have been wasted waiting for the damn circle spinning around on the web client.

[gregsn]

Dear VMware:

I’m writing you this letter in hopes that someone there will listen to my, and many of your other customer’s, pleas to update the C# vSphere Client to work with your latest product offerings.  Like many who have posted on this thread, I too am a long-time (10+ years) customer of VMware.  I’m also a VAR/integrator and work with your products on a day to day basis.  I often spend many hours per day, sometimes 6+ days a week working with VMware products (mainly with the C# vSphere client), so I think I would qualify as a “power user” or the like and hope that my request doesn’t require an extensive list of reasons to justify it.

I would also like to make something absolutely crystal clear: I am commenting on this issue because I want to continue using and recommending VMware solutions in the future because they have served me and my clients/customers well in the past.   However, at this point, I’m at my wits end with this situation and am losing hope in my continuance of be being VMware supporter for my use case scenarios.

I think having a web-based interface is great for certain purposes where administrators need quick access to various systems to make basic configuration changes (such as configuring routers, NAS boxes, SANs,  switches, etc.) and don’t want to have to install a management client for every single device.  However, web based interfaces simply do not work well for me where I need to work on mission-critical systems, day-in and day-out.  The vSphere client is an example of a mission-critical management interface that needs to be extremely stable, clear and well-polished (which the C# client arguably is) since VMware products are generally considered “mission-critical” in my environments (perhaps this is presumptuous?).  I generally do not manage routers, NAS devices, etc. for many hours per day, day in and day out, and they are often not as critical as a hypervisor if something were to go wrong (as in clicking the wrong button because the interface was lagging, for instance).  They’re generally setup once and then left alone for long periods of time, and therefore, I usually don’t mind too much about the inefficiencies of the web management interfaces for these devices.  For me, this is generally not the case for anything but the smallest implementations of VMware systems.

Today, I had the “pleasure” of setting up a small VCSA 6.5 + ESXi 6.5 environment, and I can say with certainty, the Flash/HTML management interface intended to replace the legacy C# vSphere client is significantly worse to work with than the C# client in many ways.  I don’t think I need to list all of the issues with the Flash/HTML management interface since it’s been repeated is this thread many times.  The replacement for the C# client still needs a lot of work to be, at least, equivalent in usability of the legacy C# client.

I understand that people in management level positions make mistakes from time to time.  In my opinion, the best managers are often ones who recognize their mistakes, make corrections to their logic and thought processes, and implement better decisions going forward.  This is clearly not happening here and it is to (I think I can safely say “our” here) our bewilderment as to why this is the case.  Whoever made the decision to phase out the C# client prematurely should acknowledge their mistake and make the correct decision of allocating resources to bring the C# client up to date at least until the web interface has reached usability equivalence of the C# client.  Ideally, there would some overlap in duration of both clients being maintained at equivalent usability levels until users of the system have time to switch from one interface to another.

In closing, I would just like to say that, as an “IT dude,” I’m saddened to see how many products have slid downhill from a usability perspective due to bad management decisions of implementing “out with the old” and “in with the new, no matter what” mentality (I think it’s pretty obvious which products I’m referring to) and stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the “new” is arguably worse than the “old.”  I know there are salaries, bonuses, etc  on the line in “never being wrong” for these individuals responsible for said decisions but there are some companies/organizations that have reversed direction before it was too late (which there are less examples of it seems) and salvaged their products in doing so (hurray for logic and common sense!).  Hopefully there is someone at VMware who has the gumption to Do The Right Thing™.

[kwg66]

Well said!

You will note that this post, which I created some years ago, has grown to be the most viewed post in the entire VMTN.   At one point, VMware product mangers were chiming in looking for advice on what they could do to make the offering better.  Many people replied to them stating to "bring back the C# client!"    they have not listened to their customers.   they have been arrogant to no end, and as a result, their arrogance is costing them as they are now slowing deteriorating as an organization.

1) their move to the cloud has failed, they are struggling to stay above water in this area with no positive end in sight.

2)  they made promises at VMWorld last year and have not delivered, very sad.   It should be clear to VMware the marketing and delivery are 2 separate things.  they have done a great job deceiving people with marketing, but done a horrible job delivering their vision

3)  NSX isn't taking off the way they would have liked, and doesn't offer the same value as their hypervisor does for the compute stack

4)  VSAN is not a great product, in my opinion it is a step backward in regards to what SAN and centralized storage accomplished in the first place, a separation of the compute and storage stack so each could grow and expand independent of each other.

5)  in the history of IT I can't remember ever working with a better client than the C# VI client, it was fast, efficient, could do so much, and super easy to navigate around and manage an environment with.  the fact VMware hasn't recognized this client as one of their crowning achievements is sad, because it really was.

We have not moved to 6.5 yet, so we are still hanging on to the thick client for as long as we can and only use the web client when absolutely necessary.   It will be a sad day when we upgrade to 6.5 and the thick client is no longer available.

Here are some issues that are known with this piece of crap:

Web Client issues in vSphere 6 - Support Insider - VMware Blogs

Keystrokes typed into the vSphere Web Client console of a virtual machine do not translate correctly...

https://forum.devolutions.net/topic19027-confusion-about-vmware-remote-console-and-issues-with-confi...

[Madmax01]

.   i also not really able to follow Vmwares Mind in the Moment.    they announced HTML5  and ment that c# not necessary anymore because HTML5 is fully working.

Aha. And because it's fully working  6.5  Configured  with Flash + HTML5 next together and currently Flings is 1.16.0 (Hostclient)  and 3.7.0 (Vsphere HTML5 Webclient). why not also c# next to it as long it's not fully implemented??

As long as a Product is not fully finished  the c# should stay definitly.  6.5  i feal like a non-finished product. flings changing very often.

i couldn't deploy 6.5 - as everyone would be angry.  so need to stay with 6.0

Every Admin will confirm that Tasks over   Web is more slow then for c#.  if the same View would be handled like on c# Client > then it's a more better way to go with.

Once changing minds and maintaining again C#  > would be good to provide also an x64 Version of it

Best regards

Max

[QNAPPING]

Good reply! I have to agree. As as long time user of VMWARE, this webclient fiasco is disrupting my business. As much as I would like the webclient to be useful, its clearly not a finished product, and is close to unusable.  We started upgrading our global cluster to 6.5, however that project has now stalled and there is talks of back rolling it. Its a shame VMWARE is so clearly ignoring their community. Please bring back the C# client!!!

[psiawb]

I have to add myself to this list. Since the web client was originally released, I've been trying (unsuccessfully) with each major version to learn and use it. Each and every time I finally gave up and went back to the fat client in disgust. Now, with the release of 6.5 finally ditching the fat client, I setup an eval host and vCenter server in the lab and for the past few weeks I've been forcing myself to setup a complex environment and perform the various functions I would need to do in our production environment. All I can say is that it has been an absolute nightmare. I've managed to get everything done, but it's taken about four times longer than it would have taken be with 6.0 using the fat client. It's not just horrible slowness that irks me, it's the layout. I feel like I'm on a treasure hunt every time I try to find the location of a particular function. Nothing flows. Nothing is intuitive. Normally with a new interface things eventually start to click after enough time is spent working in it. Not here. It seems like no matter how much time I spend or how many times I repeat the same task, I still struggle with finding the location of basic tasks. I could not have come up with a more confusing and convoluted interface if I deliberately set out to do JUST THAT. Also, back to the issue of sluggishness, the new HTML5 interface is almost as bad as the flash interface in that arena. The HTML5 interface built into ESXI itself is even slower yet, and so buggy I almost can't use it. If vcenter was down and that host web interface was the only option in a production environment you'd be in big trouble. Better start learning the command line fast if you plan to roll out 6.5. I was really interested in the the capabilities of the new VMFS 6, but now after this experience I definitely won't be recommending 6.5 for our network. We are currently on 5.5 and I think it's time to take a look at Hyper-V. Great job VMWARE, you blew it.

[Arjan1202]

Unfortunately we have upgraded to 6.5 and till today still regret it, our 6.0 environnement was working perfect since the upgrade a lot's of issue's and not only the client.

But the promise that HTML 5 will be great is a great disappointment.

You can't even do a storage vMotion.. and if you put an esxi host in maintiance mode your browser hangs and more....

And there are also small features that suddenly are not available anymore, in a newer version. The new version only cost me more time to manage vmware then before.

So the fat client isn't avaible anymore and the HTML 5 missing features and the flash client is still a pain the ass, it is so slow.

I suppose there are also engeineers at vmware like the people here and must think this sucks we can't do this.

[JPBarber2011101]

VMware Flash Client = When is Microsoft Azure Stack coming out again? Might be time to consider switching.

[Eric_Allione]

I work full time with vSphere 5.5 and on that version at least, I spend 97% of my time on the Windows client. Especially when managing snapshots I find it much faster.

What I use the Web Client for is the "related objects" feature. I am not aware of a similar feature on the Windows client, and this helps me navigate through an object's connections. Most notably, I can look at the load of a host and see which of its VMs are taking up disproportionate RAM.

My biggest complaint about the Web Client is that accessing the VMs with the console never seems to work right, for example my mouse will disappear on me and behave like VMware Tools isn't even installed. I would also need to use the Web Client to get into Global Configuration and set up roles or to install a new plugin, even if that plugin only ends up working on the Windows client.

[dennisluvm]

Hi Eric,

The VM console issue you mention, is it when using the HTML based WebMKS console (opens in a new browser tab), or the VMware Remote Console/VMRC one (Opens a new application, either the VMRC installable, or Fusion/Workstation if you have those installed)?

If it's with the WebMKS one, are you able to give VMRC a shot?  https://my.vmware.com/en/group/vmware/details?downloadGroup=VMRC90&productId=491

[Eric_Allione]

Overlooking how embarrassed I am that I've never heard of the VMRC, thank you very much and I will try it if I can get a nod from change management.

I'm the only vSphere admin where I work and so my only friends have been the Documentation Center, PluralSight/CBT Nuggets, and the VMware Press Books. But lately I've really grown to appreciate how the give and take in these forums makes it feel like I'm on an actual VMware team. Working by yourself (without technical mentors or senior techs) makes it easy and tempting to stop learning.

[unsichtbare]

It is nice to see how unified the VMware user community is in hating the Web Client!

I am holding my companies vSphere environment at 6.0 and VM HW version 8, simply because the web-client sucks!

In particular, the Virtual Machine Console sucks, even with the VMRC! I have had several VMs in our 6.5 DEV environment where the mouse simply would not work, even with the VMware Tools installed and the VMRC!

Bottom line is: where we used to have one client app, now there are many apps, all required at and for different things!

• Embedded Host Client
• Web-Client (Flash)
• Web-Client (HTML5 - not fully functional)
• VMRC
• VAMI (:5480)

And extend this with the increased need for SSH administration of ESXi hosts for operations that used to be simple in the Windows vSphere Client, like adding static discovery targets! I am not about to add static discovery targets to a cluster using the Web Client!

[kwg66]

Make sure you pay attention this this KB before installing the VMRC

https://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=21308...

Ken

[sr01]

If you have not been using PowerCLI for Powershell I would recommend using that as well.  That is one piece of software VMware has gotten right.

With all the lag of the web client in vSphere 5.5, I forced myself to use PowerCLI for basic tasks such as opening console windows of VMs.

And with VMRC installed, using PowerCLI 6.5 you can use the Open-VMConsoleWindow command and the console window opens right up.  Its way faster than using the web client to highlight the VM and click the open console button.

So you can do for example:

Get-VM "NameOfVM" | Open-VMConsoleWindow

If you have PowerCLI 6 then this script below would do the same as above.  PowerCLI 6.5 added the ability to use VMRC natively.

PowerCLI/Open-VMConsole at master · Tunsworthy/PowerCLI · GitHub

[sp4rt4n]

Totally agree with unsichtbare​ about the many "clients" and tools, VMware should just throw away this whole Web Client trash and keep developing the C# client.

We recently started to migrate our testing site from 5.5 to 6.5, cause we wanted to test and use VMFS6 with a new storage system (e.g. auto scsi-unmap) but the lack of a WORKING administration client isn't worth the more features we would get.

We just started the rollout of the production environment, when we realized that we couldn't handle much of our daily actions with the Web Client(s)... so we rolled everything back to 6.0 or better...started upgrade from 5.5 to 6.0 instead of 6.5.

It's not that we didn't tested the Web Clients... wie really did (with some smaller testing environments from 5.5 up to 6.5...every version of it) and thought we could handle it ... but this is an administration nightmare and simply not for professional work.

I don't want to list every little stupid thing we noticed, as it is almost everything said numerous times in this thread.

kwg66:

We also ran into this problem with VMRC installation... it's really annoying but the workaround did it ... beta software everywhere around here, this is just unprofessional.

edit: like sr01​ said PowerCLI is a very good tool, we're using it for years now for mass-actions (like DS/LUN unmap/detach), configuration, monitoring or documentation, best addition to the C# client so far.

[kwg66]

I have another issue to report when using the web client - this is something I'm seeing in my VCSA 6.02.. 

First, screenshot from the thick client regarding the 'yellow warning' triggered for a host that has details in the summary tab of the host:

Here's the thing, I first saw the 'yellow warning' next to the host in the web client while working in NSX manager via the web client, but I couldn't find any details anywhere in the web client that showed me what the warning was.. and I searched and searched, NOTHING...  so I figured I would log into the thick client and see if there was anything on the summary tab and boom, there it was, just as you see it above..  why wasn't this displayed on the summary tab of the thick client??   Any thoughts VMware? 

working with the web client, all I saw was a yellow warning... NOTHING ELSE..

Either fix the web client, or bring back the thick... the web client is not working to the level that it is truly needed.. it does have some good features that I won't go into (I'm not 100% disappointed with it).  However, I'm disappointed enough... and I also see where working with the web client is causing me, and most everyone, headaches and more time spent dealing with the errors than we should be. 

[dennisluvm]

Hi,

Thank you for bringing this up.  A few clarification questions:

a) Do you have a screenshot of the Web Client view you mentioned, if yes could you attach that as well so we can see the difference?

b) From the screenshot you have attached it looks like you have 2 separate issues, (1) is SSH related and (2) is NSX/VDS related, is that a proper interpretation?

[kwg66]

There is nothing to screen shot from web client - that's the point. Only the yellow triangle, nothing in summary tab, alerts, or monitoring areas of host.

Yes this is ssh warning

And yes this is vDS issue - the vmnics are actually missing from the vDS for this host. Need to remove host from vDS and add it back. This is just my lab so I haven't gotten to it yet but I will.

Web client is having trouble with refreshing NSX but we believe the root cause to be the VCSA due to other problems we are having with it. But that's not for this post, aside from the fact that we are experiencing numerous problems w VCSA after migration tool where the interesting thing is none of the problems pertain to the 6.02 thick client.. just web client.

Sent from my iPhone

[dennisluvm]

Hopefully you'll bear with me so I can confirm my understanding.  It may be a bug, or we may have uncovered a set of issues we're not showing on the Summary page and we definitely want to fix that.  Please see the attached screenshot which I will reference:

It sounds like you're saying:

a) On the left hand side in the Tree, you see a host with a warning icon (mine is Red in this example)

b) On the center area in the Host-> Summary pane, you don't see anything like the Yellow box I have (which reads "Cannot Synchronize Host..." and "Host Connection and power state")

Additional question:

c) If you go to Web Client "[that Host ]-> Monitor -> All Issues", do you see anything in that list?  If yes, can you include a screenshot of that?

[jasonfiller]

So disappointed with the 6.5 upgrade... The web interface, though it is somewhat better than the horrible earlier release, is still slow and clunky.  Between license issues that always seem to come up yearly and now this, Hyper-V looks better and better.  Never imagined that I would say that.