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Does it make sense to move from hypervisor 5.1 to 5.5?

I'm running 5.1, but have been reading about 5.5.  I'm trying to figure out if it makes sense to upgrade to 5.5 as a hypervisor.
1.  The 32GB is fine for what I need.  For me it just makes hardware upgrades, system backups, patching and upgrading, and adding a few monitoring VMs easier.    I'm not doing that much consolidation.  People who talk about lab environments are blowing smoke.  99% end up being used for real production servers.
2.  5.5 seems to give people trouble.  They can't work in HW level 9 or 10 and still use the VMware Client.  With 5.1 I can work with HW 9, and I'm not sure HW 10 buys me anything.  I understand VMware wanting to push guys like me to buy their $560 upgrade.  But when I see things such as Hyper-V shared-nothing migration, I don't know if ESXi is in a position to command that.
3.  It seems like there is less hardware support in 5.5 than there is 5.1.  It seems like they are having a lot more hardware issues and PSODs.

Can anyone come up with a good reason why I'd want to install 5.5 instead of 5.1?

Thanks!

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JarryG
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I was in the same situation as you, and decided not to upgrade. At least not untill the problem with native client and VM hw-version 10 is solved somehow. And I remember old saying "if it works, do not touch it!"...

_____________________________________________ If you found my answer useful please do *not* mark it as "correct" or "helpful". It is hard to pretend being noob with all those points! 😉

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john23
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Are you upgrading esxi upgrade or vSphere or both??

vSphere SSO is more stable in 5.5

-A

Thanks -A Read my blogs: www.openwriteup.com
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abhilashhb
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IT_Architect wrote:

1.  The 32GB is fine for what I need.  For me it just makes hardware upgrades, system backups, patching and upgrading, and adding a few monitoring VMs easier.    I'm not doing that much consolidation.  People who talk about lab environments are blowing smoke.  99% end up being used for real production servers.

Here is a list of improvements in vSphere 5.5. Most of them are around vCenter and its components but there are lot of improvements in ESXi too

A Summary of What’s New in vSphere 5.5 | VMware vSphere Blog - VMware Blogs

2.  5.5 seems to give people trouble.  They can't work in HW level 9 or 10 and still use the VMware Client.  With 5.1 I can work with HW 9, and I'm not sure HW 10 buys me anything.  I understand VMware wanting to push guys like me to buy their $560 upgrade.  But when I see things such as Hyper-V shared-nothing migration, I don't know if ESXi is in a position to command that.

VMware is not trying to make you buy $560 upgrade. Their main goal is to go independant of Windows platform. The now vSphere client(C#) client has a dependency on windows. they  want to come out of it and have a seamless access to the environment with the Web based client. They have no choice but cut down on the functionality of vSphere client slowly to get people used to it. You say you are running a lab, i'm sure there are lot of products like Veeam which give you the capability od doing migration across hosts even when you don't have shared storage and vCenter.

3.  It seems like there is less hardware support in 5.5 than there is 5.1.  It seems like they are having a lot more hardware issues and PSODs.

PSODs always happen with unsupported hardware. I would say don't blame VMware but buy a hardware that is on the compatibilty list. Some PSODs which happen with compatible hardware will be because of a malfunctioning hardware. I do not agree that the number of servers being supported are getting lesser.

That being said. Its all left to you. Look at all the enhancements and move to 5.5 only if they help you. If you are moving to 5.5 only to stay updated and with the cost of instability with your system, its not a good thing.

Abhilash B
LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/abhilashhb/

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VMware is not trying to make you buy $560 upgrade. Their main goal is to go independant of Windows platform. The now vSphere client(C#) client has a dependency on windows. they  want to come out of it and have a seamless access to the environment with the Web based client. They have no choice but cut down on the functionality of vSphere client slowly to get people used to it.

I can understand wanting to have a lame web interface for other platforms.  However, they already have the Windows client, so make it work with HW 9 and HW 10.  Dumbing down puts them on par with the Hyper-V management thereby removing the one big visible advantage it has amongst free hypervisors.  5.5 would have to have some p;retty compelling features to make it worth dancing around the HW version issues with the current Windows Client.

You say you are running a lab,

No, I say I'm not running a lab, and neither are 99% of the other vSphere installs.  I'm using it in production more to separate the hardware from the operating system, gain snapshot ability, a few VMs for monitoring and scheduling of tasks that would normally run on a workstation somewhere, and cross-server backups using GhettoVCB.

, i'm sure there are lot of products like Veeam which give you the capability od doing migration across hosts even when you don't have shared storage and vCenter.

Unless something has changed, Veeam does not give me that capability for free and I would need to upgrade to get the writable API it requires.


I'm just trying to determine if there are any tangible benefits for me, or if I would just be making life more complicated for myself by using 5.5.

Thanks!

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spectVM
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Abhilash wrote:

...

VMware is not trying to make you buy $560 upgrade. Their main goal is to go independant of Windows platform. The now vSphere client(C#) client has a dependency on windows. ...

Almost believable argument. However, we all know that is a pile of you know what.

The client is already written and dependency on Windows isn't evil enough to impose the resources the web client needs.

Those that have small low power compute units with 8-16GB of RAM are being pushed out.

abhilashhb
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You are not getting the point. If they provide all the features in vSphere client and one fine day announce that its gone will you tolerate it. Its their way of getting users use the web client.

You say you use the hypervisor for production. And its free hypervisor which comes with no support and here's a product which will give you backup restore and migration capabilities and you do not want to buy that too.

As i mentioned in my last point, it is totally left to you. I'm just trying to help you here. Not making you love VMware are not suggesting you to anything that will make your life complicated Smiley Happy

Abhilash B
LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/abhilashhb/

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abhilashhb
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They say that. Would you believe if i tell you i run a Windows machine with 4GB RAM with all components on vCenter installed on it and manages 12 hosts? Its running fine without any issues till date. If you have a small environment you could do that and if you have a bigger one then its obvious you will have to go with the specs they say to server a big environment and its ok to invest on it as its the main component in the environment..

Abhilash B
LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/abhilashhb/

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JarryG
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I was in the same situation as you, and decided not to upgrade. At least not untill the problem with native client and VM hw-version 10 is solved somehow. And I remember old saying "if it works, do not touch it!"...

_____________________________________________ If you found my answer useful please do *not* mark it as "correct" or "helpful". It is hard to pretend being noob with all those points! 😉
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IT_Architect
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spectVM said:  Almost believable argument. However, we all know that is a pile of you know what.  The client is already written and dependency on Windows isn't evil enough to impose the resources the web client needs.  Those that have small low power compute units with 8-16GB of RAM are being pushed out.

At least I can depend on you to call a spade a spade.  For all intents and purposes, there is no free 5.5 without using hacks and work-around to manage it.  Web clients are for those who happen to be using a non-Windows device, like Android, when they don't have a PC handy.  Even MACs run Windows to get their work done.  I wouldn't have a use for vCenter if it were free.  I've been happy with GhettoVCB for backups, and I haven't ever needed support, and that's been since 2008.

Forget about what I want, VMware is in no position to do this.  VMware promoted their free version in August of 2008 with version 3.5 of ESXi, and a lot of people, like me, began using it, and VMware grew the market, from which they profited from quite handsomely.  XEN and Hyper-V had free versions, but they weren't real, and soon people figured that out.  Today, the reviews and benchmarks show the Hyper-V can outperform ESXi with Windows VMs, and Microsoft is giving away what  Abhilash says I should pay money for.  ESXi's saving grace in the reviews is the vSphere client.  In 5.5, VMware has dropped the free version for all intents and purpose by removing the client, and the only thing that works is the old client using hacks and work-arounds.  Thus, they surrendered the only advantage cited in the reviews, and replaced it with a client that is down on Hyper-V's level for functionality, that is not free.  They would be way better off maintaining the 32 GB RAM limit like they have with 5.1.

I hope they aren't paying their leadership much at VMware.  They are acting like Novell did.  Today, we have Active Directory, easily the sorriest directory service application on the planet.  The best is Novell's eDirectory.  Novell's pursuit of the sorry web client resulted in 3 different clients to manage eDirectory, and angry users.  The safest, common environment for a client is Windows.  You can do nice web interfaces with ActiveX and Java, but even Microsoft ditched ActiveX in their browsers, and we all know that Java exploits are so common that people uninstall it from their browsers.  HTML makes for one sorry interface.  Novell was under the same pressure as VMware is today.  Then, Microsoft said, if you have an up to date Microsoft client, you don'[t need a CAL.  Today, Microsoft says the tools you need for Hyper-V, are the same as you need for managing servers.  Later Microsoft changed so that you need a CAL for about anything.  That will change for Hyper-V also.  Whether VMware realizes it or not, they only have two workable options with regard to vSphere.
1.  Restrict the free version like they did with 5.1
2.  Change the license to make it free, but not for business use, similar to what they do for VMware Player.  I has to be priced to where people see it makes more sense than free from the competition, and want to pay it.  Microsoft does this every day.  FreeBSD and Linux are free, but it's an expensive free.  By the time you buy or put together everything you need for them, they cost far more than Windows server, and you still don't end up with the functionality.  VMware needs to use the same approach with vSphere, and I don't mean SaaS either.

VMware is the eDirectory of virtualization.  It appears VMware starts fumbling every time Microsoft says boo!  Their fumbling spooks everyone else.  FreeBSD 10 is writing support for Hyper-V.  MAC is a FreeBSD fork, and they co-develop many things.  VMware needs to get their act together, not for my sake, for their sake.  They are giving away their mind share.  I and many others hadn't even been thinking about Hyper-V until now because of our past disappointments.  This situation caused me to start reading about it, and get me curious enough to try it again.  I may be the low ground for VMware, but the low ground has a way of growing to be the high ground, as we saw the PCs displace the mainframes and minis for business applications, and how PCs are now the servers, and mainframes use PC parts and standards.  It took Novell years of being distracted from their core competency to hand Microsoft the network server market.  As a result, today, we have servers, hacked from desktop operating system, with a mickey mouse directory services, and a generation of IT people where their expectations have been redefined to the limited Active Directory architecture, and who are completely ignorant of the safety, and automation that was buried.  We'll have to wait and see if VMware follows Novell's example.  We can't blame Microsoft.  They are simply exercising common sense and doing what a business coming from behind has to do to get their product into the next generation's hands, like they did with Windows, Office, and Server.

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timlane
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I have upgraded everything to 5.5.  I did experience some problems, but not with the install.  Everything installed fine and worked correctly.  What happened in my situation is I noticed VM's randomly losing connectivity.  I tried upgrading VMware Tools, the hardware versions, nothing seemed to work.  I only encountered issues with my 4 proliant dl360 g6 servers.  My 3 G7's and one G8 did not seem to suffer from the connectivity issues.  Long story short, make sure your firmware versions for your VMNIC's are current.  In my case it was the Broadcom NC382i integrated NIC's, which I was using for iSCSI with jumbo frames.  It seems that there was some incompatibility and they didn't perform like they should when using them for my iSCSI connections with jumbo frames.  Everything seems to be working fine now.

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spectVM
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@Abhilash

That 4GB + overhead is something I would much rather not have imposed. No one is saying vCenter is useless. It is great when needed.

Giving me an OS + DB + app layer in order to manage my single box is overkill and should be entirely optional.

I still remember the days when I used to run several VMs on ESXi on a Thinkpad with only 2GB of RAM.

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abhilashhb
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I'm sure VMware will think a way of making web client available just for a ESXi host. Wait till it evolves there Smiley Wink

Its not that i don't understand what you guys mean. Its just that we cannot do much about it. I can only give you reasons why VMware might be doing this and become the bad guy Smiley Wink

Abhilash B
LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/abhilashhb/

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JarryG
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I sincerely hope VMware is thinking about making NEW client! Because I do not have sufficiently polite word for that flashy-crap. To create serious enterprise-targeted app in flash is simply nonsense. Hell, wake up VMware, it's 2014! Never heard of xhtml/html5?

I know corporations where flash and java is completely company-wide forbidden, with no exception. Not only is flash-client slow and resources-hungry (I compared native client with web-client side-by-side), but flash is also notoriously insecure.

_____________________________________________ If you found my answer useful please do *not* mark it as "correct" or "helpful". It is hard to pretend being noob with all those points! 😉
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abhilashhb
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I'm sure that's one change that is going to happen in next realease. After so much fuss over Linux not supporting flash anymore, its time to move to Html5.

Abhilash B
LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/abhilashhb/

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RolfW81
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Hello Community.

last week I was on an ICM 5.5 course. We also asked about the devolpment of the Windows Client. The answer we got was, that VMWare do not develop the client further, because of the Microsoft rapid development at OS. True or not... who knows?

Personally my wish would be to continue the Windows Client, because of performance and usability. But I think VMWare make his choice for the vCSA, because of "free" Linux and Co (hipe). But for companies which has an contract with Microsoft, this would not be the best solution. Also in mind, that the Update Manager cannot be used under the vCSA and VM-10 cannot be managed with the client.

So we migrated to 5.1 and now wait and see what happens.

I hope to the next Release/Update, VMWare takes time to build a complete package.

Regards,

Rolf

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