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      • 1,275. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
        Rumple Master

        VMware is also somewhat handicapped by the fact that their only source of revenue is in virtualization software.

         

        I’d have to disagree with this…

         

        VMware has Capacity IQ, Vmware has vShield App (upgrade to vShield), VMware has hundred of products…however not many people see the true value of them to be honest…at least in the core infrastructure environment.

         

        When I am building out my cloud environment, I like the chargeback model, I like the vShield product lines, I like the vdirector…

         

        When I am building out my internal data center…I do not require ANY of these products…because I am my own customer and big business never really does chargeback to themselves..not the way it works with hosting companies and all Security zones are handled by internal Network teams using Core Networking products.

        Companies build their infrastructure like they lease cars for employee’s…they pay for the vehicle costs and insurance…75+ Percent do not charge their employee’s departments mileage  or chargeback a portion of the insurance.  All the costs are part of a G&A budget and that’s that.

         

        The reason vmware needs the revenue from their hypervisor is because no one will buy their other products…

        VMWare view…has huge competition from citrix.  Trend competes with vShield App product line (deep security),

         

        Citrix is able to give Xenserver away because they have customers who want to run Citrix…and XenDesktop is a natural companion…tie in their Cloud purchase to give you the who management piece and I think they have really put vmware into a bind…especially since their Cloud model is so F’n expensive compared to Citrix.

        Their only saving grace I think in a lot of cases is that many big businesses run vSphere…which will tie in nicely to cloud providers running VSPP environments…

         

        However make it too expensive for either party and guess what…Citrix will walk away with the price.

         

        My own hosting environment is actually compised of 2 environments…gives me balanced compatibility and allows me to put all my infrastructure on a $73/month/host  Xenserver Farm…vs having it on a vmware  farm where I would pay will over $1000/month just to run DNS, AD, File Servers, Exchange Servers, etc…

         

        Economically I think vmware is going to be in trouble as Citrix moves down this road of a complete solution for Cloud, Infrastructure, application, and Desktop integration, especially when you start typing in their Networking and Wan Acceleration products….

        Citrix is building a complete solution…vmware is concentrating still on Infrastructure, Cloud and Desktop virtualization…

        • 1,276. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
          devilz666 Novice

          Even if they to recount on their rediculous vram scheme, they have already done so much damage to their reputation they may never recover fully.

          I personally already have customers who have cancelled enterprise orders and are in no hurry to even look at vmware anymore and are evaulating xen as we speak.

          The foolishness of vmware in doing the vram license shows they have absolutly no clue as to how customers use their products or their marketing/license team should be fired.

          Vmware has shown no insight into protecting their smb market share, and I have no faith that the following version wont come out with some new rediculous license scheme yet again even if they up the current vram limits, why bother getting a 3 year support agreement when in 12/18/24 months time version Vsphere 5.5 might lower the vram limits again and require even more licenses?

          Who knows, maybe the next version will all ofa sudden charge per virtual network port? or maybe they'll decide to remove some major feature and charge you extra for it?

           

          We recommend Xen from now on (unless they do the same mistake as vmware, fingers crossed that doesnt happen)

          • 1,277. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
            Jimbonx Novice

            This licensing makes VmWare Client shocked with the new licensing model.

            If it is true they moved from cpu entitlement to vram entitlement model they should be add flexibility on this license model.

            They must be add another license for expanding the memory not tight by the cpu license either.

             

            this will be help for client that already invest on hardware with 2 processor socket and 192 GB memory.

            they just need to add licenses for expanding the memory.

             

             

            thanks

            • 1,278. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
              DSeaman Hot Shot

              VMware apparently has updated their VSPP licensing model for vSphere 5.0, according to: http://blogs.vmware.com/vcloud/2011/07/update-on-vmware-service-provider-program-vspp.html

               

              I wonder if their change to reserved RAM with a minimum threshold will be the new model for non-VSPP licenses being announced tomorrow?

               

              'We are changing the licensing metric for the cloud IaaS bundles from allocated virtual RAM to reserved RAM, to allow service providers to exploit the powerful memory oversubscription capabilities of vSphere (see below for details). Associated with this change, there is a 24GB reserved RAM price ceiling per VM and a minimum “floor” for reserved RAM to avoid excessive memory oversubscription (see details below)."

              • 1,279. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                hmtk1976 Enthusiast

                @ Rumple

                 

                I agree 100%.  For Microsoft and Citrix virtualization is an extra source of revenue which might help sell their other products but they don't need it the way VMware does.  The products VMware sells besides vSphere are not of interest to the vast majority of SMB's and probably most larger companies can do perfectly without them as well.  For VMware's sake I hope that cloud providers like their product lineup because for my customers the Citrix and Microsoft products are as good as vSphere.  I'm going to upgrade a customers Windows Server Enterprise to Datacenter which would cost a whopping € 50 per server per year more in SA than they pay now.  With the savings of not paying SnS we can buy other interesting stuff.

                • 1,280. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                  E.W. Novice

                  Hi,

                   

                  I read the license and pricing myself and had some trouble figure out the way to calculate

                  what I was planning.  (It's nothing big.  I've never seen so much talk about Mutli-gigabytes

                  in memory and multiple cores before.  The most I've read about were the desktop-style

                  dual cores.)

                   

                  Background: I'm new to virtualizing.  I've only used VMWare Workstation.

                  I have been planning to migrate my workplace's infrastructure to a virtual one.  I even

                  downloaded ESXi and installed it on a lowly single dual core 3.06 system.  I had

                  trouble with it as the CPU was not recognized by the motherboard (salvaged from

                  a broken down system) and so I bought a new motherboard.  Then it didn't recognize

                  my onboard NIC so I had to get an Intel GT adapter, which ESXi recognized. Anyway,

                  my plan is to get Essentials (or Essentials plus) and have a go at virtualizing

                  the services at work.  Being the only IT person supporting two groups,  I really

                  need to find smarter ways of managing and maintaining these systems. And judging

                  the budget, it's going to be  along time before anyone in the management section

                  is gonna bother hiring someone to help me.

                   

                  I spent probably four or five days going over this thread for the sake of understanding the

                  licensing and pricing scheme.  Little did I know I actually was reading a thread of

                  disappointed customers.   (Uh oh.  Not a good sign to see.)

                   

                  From a person like me looking into this 'fray', it doesn't give me any good vibes

                  that VMWare is worth investing in.  Whether or not this is a fair call, I suppose it's

                  too early to establish.  In a sense, it isn't late as I haven't written any checks to

                  VMWare yet.  The product itself seems fantastic.  But feature wise, my boss

                  doesn't care.  It's the $$$ that means something.

                   

                  So far, I've had a good experience in the community as a lot of people have

                  helped me understand this whole virtualizing task ahead of me.  Customer

                  support (particularly AFTER-SALES customer support is important for me).

                  I hate buying some product only to find the after-sales support bites.  (Been

                  there. done that.  I'm sure I'm not the only one here.)  Community support is

                  important though.  There could be work-arounds to issues; but if the problem

                  really requires the company's attention,  this is where the money investment

                  counts.

                   

                  But the main factors of purchasing is to see whether or not the company cares

                  and/or understands the supposed customers they sell their products to.

                  Judging from this thread,  I'm sceptical.  My company would *never* invest

                  that much in the infrastructure (which is why the systems are self-built

                  towers).  Seeing so many *real world* configurations in this thread, and

                  looking back at the pricing/licensing pdf,  I question the decision behind the

                  vRam entitlements.   Even with Essentials, I'm only given a max of

                  vRAM of 144GB.  3 Hosts, that's 48GB per host.  Each host having

                  just 1 socket.   Hosting at least three VMs  Does it even make sense

                  for me to bother with virtualizing?   (Sometimes I wonder if I'm just interested

                  in Keeping up with the Joneses.)

                   

                  No offense to anyone.

                   

                   

                  Ed

                  • 1,281. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                    Jimbonx Novice

                    Dear if new users maybe not impact so much on this new licensing model.

                     

                    but the existing users that already invest on some hardware will impact directly from the new licensing model.

                     

                    just for your info about license i attached the picture license paket kit from vmware

                     

                    as for the it to suggest the management to invest are depends on need likes

                    does the hardware maintanance i budgeted from your company? for how many years for each server hardware?

                    multiply by number of server for physical calculation.

                     

                    with virtual are you reduce number of physical server you need? multiply again by number of physical you need for virtual host.

                     

                    there one of saving you got, besides that for the enterprise edition windows in virtualization you eligible to use 4 for each license you got.

                    or maybe for data center license for unlimited windows run on that processor.

                     

                    you must calculate precisely and detail to get the budget approve.

                    from my side i had no budget for data center consolidation (virtualization) when i joint to my company, just get the budget from opex.

                    transfer the opex to capex with justification benefit how many saving that we will had on virtual environment.

                    calculate also the electricity u need and cooling for less physical server you need, also calculate the room for data center you need if calculate to $ for each square meter you used.

                     

                    you will definitely suprising for the saving you got, that is the beauty of technology.

                     

                    but suddenly the license scheme changed that will be impact for what i already present to management for this current time we do not need ......

                     

                    now we need to double the license from no where that not calculated before and become a heartburn for me.

                     

                     

                    thanks

                    • 1,282. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                      Jawdat Enthusiast

                      Aroudnev, I don't know how solid that review you kindly added the link to, especially the percentages on there, who's done the survey?.

                       

                      It does not take a genius to work it out, for the Cloud Service Providers the less cost they can run their operations the more profits, enters the Xen, KVM, Parallel or even Hyper-V (how can they run enterprise-stability-performance with this one without so much management/bits and bobs...).  So it is obvious Cloud guys will reject VMware with any licences, it is open market in the end and you get what you pay for, so as those CSP's customers.

                       

                      Again I am not defending VMware or this new taxing licensing model, its clearly unimaginative, inflexible to say the least and VMware like the CSPs, looking at maximising their profits, cashing in on their dominance/market share and all that.

                       

                      What I am saying is that CSPs use of the virtualisation technology is directly connect to the existence of their business and to their profit making, virtualisation is the conveyor-belt of their production/business and yes they should pay fairly for it.

                       

                      Corporations and SMBs on the other hand use this technology to reduce the costs of running their businesses. VMware missed this aspect completely and yes, if they continue like this they might be in more trouble than they think in no time.

                      • 1,283. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                        hmtk1976 Enthusiast

                        E.W.

                         

                        If 144 GB vRAM is not enough for you and anything but Essentials (Plus) too expensive you're better of with XenServer at this time.  How much RAM would you need to assign to your VM's you think?  With 144 GB vRAM you can virtualize quite a few servers and even with the new licensing it might be a good purchase.  You'll have to do the math though.  The hard limit on usable vRAM is tough.

                         

                        As to building your own systems... I really don't understand why anyone would do this except for very specific tasks.  Support isn't guaranteed if the machine isn't on the HCL of VMware or Citrix so why bother saving a few € building your own?

                        • 1,284. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                          goppi Enthusiast

                          Hi.

                           

                          We are a consultant company focused on the SMB market and the Essentials Plus Kit

                          was what most often fit our customer's needs.

                           

                          I just studied the new licensing model for ESX5 and I think we will start

                          evaluating other solutions for virtualization.

                           

                          Sorry but the new licenssing model is a joke and nothing more than

                          a drastic price increase.

                           

                          We will not upgrade a single customer to ESX5. For most of them

                          we would simply not be able to do that without leaving the Essentials

                          path.

                           

                          It somehow looked that first VMware offers interresting products for

                          a reasonable price and then after you are depending on it, they

                          try to rip you off.

                           

                          I'm absolutely shocked.

                          • 1,285. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                            hmtk1976 Enthusiast

                            Blog from 2008. If you read it with vSphere 5 licensing in mind you might cry.

                            • 1,286. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                              hmtk1976 Enthusiast

                              blogs.vmware.com/virtualreality/2008/03/memory-overcomm.html

                              • 1,287. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                                nolent Enthusiast

                                hmtk1976 wrote:

                                 

                                Blog from 2008. If you read it with vSphere 5 licensing in mind you might cry.

                                 

                                You need to step back and realize this is 2011, not 2008. That train of thought was so "last decade". You need to step into the future and embrace the cloud and thank VMWare for allowing us to better provide these vital services to our business units.

                                • 1,288. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                                  kmcferrin Novice
                                  Mark Hodges wrote:

                                  VMware is also somewhat handicapped by the fact that their only source of revenue is in virtualization software.

                                   

                                  I’d have to disagree with this…

                                   

                                  VMware has Capacity IQ, Vmware has vShield App (upgrade to vShield), VMware has hundred of products…however not many people see the true value of them to be honest…at least in the core infrastructure environment.

                                   

                                   

                                  The reason vmware needs the revenue from their hypervisor is because no one will buy their other products…
                                  VMWare view…has huge competition from citrix.  Trend competes with vShield App product line (deep security),

                                   

                                  Citrix is able to give Xenserver away because they have customers who want to run Citrix…and XenDesktop is a natural companion…tie in their Cloud purchase to give you the who management piece and I think they have really put vmware into a bind…especially since their Cloud model is so F’n expensive compared to Citrix.
                                  Their only saving grace I think in a lot of cases is that many big businesses run vSphere…which will tie in nicely to cloud providers running VSPP environments…

                                   

                                  However make it too expensive for either party and guess what…Citrix will walk away with the price.

                                   

                                  Economically I think vmware is going to be in trouble as Citrix moves down this road of a complete solution for Cloud, Infrastructure, application, and Desktop integration, especially when you start typing in their Networking and Wan Acceleration products….
                                  Citrix is building a complete solution…vmware is concentrating still on Infrastructure, Cloud and Desktop virtualization…

                                   

                                   

                                  I love how you say that you disagree with what I said, then you made my entire argument for me. 

                                   

                                  I think that you actually agree with me but misunderstood what I said.  My claim is that VMware only makes money from virtualization software, not that they only make money off of the hypervisor.  "Virtualization software" encompasses all of those other things that you mentioned.  Citrix and Microsoft have other money making products outside of virtualization, VMware doesn't.  VMware's non-hypervisor software (which I will call "virtualization management software") only works with VMware's hypervisor.  Microsoft's and Citrix's will manage hypervisors from multiple vendors.  Their approach is more open (bring whatever hypervisor you have licensed) and they have other sources of revenue.  VMware's is closed (ESXi/vSphere only) and they don't have other sources of revenue.

                                   

                                  That's not to say that VMware isn't viable, they certainly are.  They still have marketshare and mindshare, plus technical leadership.  But as time goes by and the competition catches up technically then VMware begins to look much less compelling, and the increased licensing costs and constantly changing license model will not be helpful to them longer-term.

                                  • 1,289. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                                    kmcferrin Novice

                                    hmtk1976 wrote:

                                     

                                    For VMware's sake I hope that cloud providers like their product lineup because for my customers the Citrix and Microsoft products are as good as vSphere.  I'm going to upgrade a customers Windows Server Enterprise to Datacenter which would cost a whopping € 50 per server per year more in SA than they pay now.

                                     

                                    I am unclear what this has to do with virtualization.  Surely if they have a virtualization solution in place then they already have properly licensed their Windows Server VMs?

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