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      • 675. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
        bilalhashmi Hot Shot

        I have no reason to disagree.. I would think so as well.. if you have to pay more that does impact your future plans..

         

        Follow me @ Cloud-Buddy.com

        • 676. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
          wdroush1 Hot Shot

          Bilal wrote:

           

          wdroush1 wrote:

           

          Go back to statistics 101. You have a margin of error ~9%.

          Yes

           

          Follow me @ Cloud-Buddy.com

          9% is really high when you're banking on that 25% that says they wont be affected.

           

           

          Also you have to take into account the demographic of people reading your blog: terrible, terrible people (I kid, I kid. , more seriously a handful of vExperts and the like).

          • 677. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
            bilalhashmi Hot Shot

            I am not suggesting the 25% is a number to be proud of either. I am disappointed with that as well considering it can really be much lower than that..

             

             

            Also you have to take into account the demographic of people reading your blog: terrible, terrible people (I kid, I kid. ).

             

             

            Follow me @ Cloud-Buddy.com

            • 678. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
              URDaddy Novice

              How the Hell do I get off of this community email list?

              • 679. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                bilalhashmi Hot Shot

                On the right towards the top see under 'Actions". Click on stop email notifications..

                 

                Follow me @ Cloud-Buddy.com

                • 680. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                  MindTheGreg Hot Shot

                  Actions > Stop Email Notifications

                  • 681. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                    cvbarney Enthusiast

                    You are right, it was due to my Firefox browser. When I reconnect with IE I saw the very disappointing answers...

                    C: I'm being affected with upscaled.......

                    VMware: Run the tool...

                    On every question of customer who is being affected. No solution or possible change icreasement of vRAM.

                     

                    And one of the most important for me isn't answered:

                    Q: As RAM chips get large and cheaper over the next couple years does VMware plan on adjusting the RAM entitlements to match this?

                    VMware: Don't have this information at this point

                     

                    Waste of my time this webcast.

                    • 682. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                      wuffers Novice

                      cvbarney wrote:

                       

                      Waste of my time this webcast.

                      I might attend the next one just for kicks. How can they be so resolutely obtuse on this? It's like they are not even acknowledging people's concerns, and are just giving canned responses. No more licensing evangelists or tweets about how 95% of customers aren't affected by this, please.

                      • 683. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                        rbtwindude Novice

                        Really?

                        what a meeting.. webinar! Did anyone get anything out of this?

                         

                        They did talk about a tool, but I haven't seen a tool, only a couple scripts by non-VMware employees. These scripts only look at today and compare some environments but not what has been planned or purchased or DR/BC environments.

                         

                        One guy stated "we can improve our utilization of vSphere under the new license model and that it was less restrictive." What does that mean? Hmm good thought so if true then show us, give us proof of this. What numbers support this and where did these numbers come from?

                         

                        I am just totally lost with this and confused on how it will affect the users. At some point it will affect us. The VMware forum (VMTN ) is full of lost people and no one is willing to have an "open honest discussion" about this! That makes no sense to me, if VMware doesn't understand this model then how can they expect customers to?

                         

                         

                        The numbers seem like car salemen.. funny numbers!


                        Can someone please explain how this works and KIS (keep is simple)! Explain as EXSi 4.1 and then Vshpere 5 license model.

                         

                        1 host

                        2 physical sockets

                        4 cores per socket (8 total)

                        512 gigs of RAM

                        VM Server OS - 2008 R2 (8gb per)

                         

                        So I look at the above like this - 2 x 4 = 8 x 4 VMs per Core = 32 x 8 GB of Ram per VM = 256 Gigs... the license will be expensive!

                         

                        First and formost, I don't see how this amount of RAM would be used.. maybe 40:1 vm Ratio?

                         

                        Thanks!

                        • 684. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                          kcucadmin Enthusiast

                          rbtwindude wrote:

                           

                          Really?

                          what a meeting.. webinar! Did anyone get anything out of this?

                           

                          They did talk about a tool, but I haven't seen a tool, only a couple scripts by non-VMware employees. These scripts only look at today and compare some environments but not what has been planned or purchased or DR/BC environments.

                           

                          One guy stated "we can improve our utilization of vSphere under the new license model and that it was less restrictive." What does that mean? Hmm good thought so if true then show us, give us proof of this. What numbers support this and where did these numbers come from?

                           

                          I am just totally lost with this and confused on how it will affect the users. At some point it will affect us. The VMware forum (VMTN ) is full of lost people and no one is willing to have an "open honest discussion" about this! That makes no sense to me, if VMware doesn't understand this model then how can they expect customers to?

                           

                           

                          The numbers seem like car salemen.. funny numbers!


                          Can someone please explain how this works and KIS (keep is simple)! Explain as EXSi 4.1 and then Vshpere 5 license model.

                           

                          1 host

                          2 physical sockets

                          4 cores per socket (8 total)

                          512 gigs of RAM

                          VM Server OS - 2008 R2 (8gb per)

                           

                          So I look at the above like this - 2 x 4 = 8 x 4 VMs per Core = 32 x 8 GB of Ram per VM = 256 Gigs... the license will be expensive!

                           

                          First and formost, I don't see how this amount of RAM would be used.. maybe 40:1 vm Ratio?

                           

                          Thanks!

                           

                          you dont get 32GB per core, you get 32GB per socket. i.e. 64GB "Pooled" so for a single host with 8GB Guest VM's you could have 8 VM's. or 4:1 - 4 VM per Socket.

                           

                          that's at the Enterprise License Level.

                           

                          Current 4.x Model:

                          you would need 2 Enterprise Licenses and could allocate as much vRAM as you wanted upto and supassing 512 GB of ram

                           

                           

                          5.x Model:

                          you would need 2 Enterprise Licenses to cover your Socket count.  2 x 32 = 64 GB of vRAM "Allocated" licensable.  "NOT USED, but ASSIGEND to a VM".

                          to license more vRAM than 64GB you would need to buy additonal Enterprise Licenses. (512-64= 448GB pRAM unuseable due to license contraints) to License 448GB of vRAM 448/32 = 14.  VMWare would like you to buy 14 additonal Enterprise Licenses to allocate vRAM equal to the pRAM you have in your 2 socket host.  assuming you did not want to overcommit pRAM.

                          • 685. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                            GaryHertz Novice

                            rbtwindude wrote:

                             


                            Can someone please explain how this works and KIS (keep is simple)! Explain as EXSi 4.1 and then Vshpere 5 license model.

                             

                            1 host

                            2 physical sockets

                            4 cores per socket (8 total)

                            512 gigs of RAM

                            VM Server OS - 2008 R2 (8gb per)

                             

                            So I look at the above like this - 2 x 4 = 8 x 4 VMs per Core = 32 x 8 GB of Ram per VM = 256 Gigs... the license will be expensive!

                             

                            First and formost, I don't see how this amount of RAM would be used.. maybe 40:1 vm Ratio?

                             

                            Thanks!

                            Using your numbers as I understanf them.  Your actual configuration doesn't match what you plan on needing.

                             

                            4.1

                            You have two physical sockets so you will need two licenses.  Your total memory exceeds 256GB so you will need to purchase 2 Enterprise Plus licenses.  If you reduced your RAM down to 256GB you could purchase 2 licenses from less expensice versions further reducing your costs.

                             

                            5.0

                            Memory restrictions are gone on the versions listed below so you have greater choice of version you purchase.  You are allocting 256GB of vRAM to your guests so you will need the following number of licenses.  Total vRAM / vRAM Entitlement.

                             

                            Standard

                            256GB/24GB = 11 licenses

                             

                            Enterprise

                            256GB/32GB = 8 licenses

                             

                            Enterprise Plus

                            256GB/48GB = 6 licenses

                            • 686. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                              kcucadmin Enthusiast

                              here is a simple model for people to use:

                               

                              Assume 2 socket (6 core cpu) system: Requires 2 Licenses. w/HT you have 24 Logical CPU's and the Follwing vRAM Pools to allocate to VM's.

                               

                              Enterprise+ = (48x2) 96GB vRAM Pool

                              Enterprise= (32x2) 64GB vRAM Pool

                              Standard=(24x2) 48GB vRAM Pool

                               

                              Assume Windows Server 2008 R2 64bit  Base OS

                              base config as follows: 4 vCPU, 4GB vRAM is a pretty common config i would assume.

                               

                              VM to Host Ratio's

                              Enterprise+:  24:1

                              Enterprise:  16:1

                              Standard:  12:1

                               

                              VM to Socket Ratio's (or VM to License Ratio however you want to look at it)

                              Enterprise+: 12:1

                              Enterprise: 8:1

                              Standard: 6:1

                               

                              I can see how VMWare thought these entitlement numbers would be ok.  However when you take into account that 64bit OS's are becoming more and more common, and APPs are being developed to access larger memory spaces 4GB servers are quickly becoming a thing of the past.

                               

                              Every Single one of my 64bit SQL Servers has 12+GB vRAM allocated, i have several w 32GB vRAM allocated.  Exchange 2010 servers are the same way.

                               

                              so when you move the BASE OS model to 8GB of vRAM your ratio's look more like this

                               

                              Enterprise+:  6:1

                              Enterprise: 4:1

                              Standard: 3:1

                               

                              with servers shipping with more and more RAM becoming the norm, and OS and Applications utilizing more and more RAM becoming the norm i find it odd that by "Upgrading" i'm actually reducing my consolidation ratios.

                               

                              nobody is going to find the Feature Set of Standard with a consolidation ratio of 3:1 compelling enough to select it over Hyper-V or XEN.

                               

                              and at 4:1 or even 6:1 the Features of Enterprise and Enterprise+ are priced at a very high premium over other solutions.

                               

                              maybe my understanding is wrong or my assumptions about base VM memory allocation are off. but I bet Microsoft and XEN Sales reps are getting cheat sheets at this very moment on how to sell against this new model.

                               

                              vmware...  is on the path of IBM and Novell right now.

                               

                              remember OS2? bet not many people do.  IBM had a clear winner, then Microsoft blew them out of the water with WinNT only cause it was cheaper...

                              it was less feature rich, was not as stable, had all sorts of issues but it was cheaper and it was GOOD ENOUGH.

                               

                              remember sometimes GOOD enough is all it takes.

                              • 687. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                                GaryHertz Novice

                                Bilal wrote:

                                 

                                Pricing with pRAM model will be a conflict of interest for VMware. Why would they enhance memory overcommitment in the future if they know they can charge more by forcing users to put in more pRAM in the servers. IMO vRAM is the right approach, however, the entitlements have room for revision.

                                 

                                 

                                They would enhance memory overcommitment in the future to stay ahead of the competition.  This was one of the advantages vSphere has over other platforms.   As it stands now with the current licensing scheme they may as well eliminate it from the feature set to save the little overhead it puts on the system.

                                 

                                vRAM entitlements cost more than physical memory.  Why do I care how much physical memory VMware is saving me when I can't use the memory I have in my system now?  Using the two licenses I currently own I only have access to 96GB using 5.0.  With 4.1 I have access to 256GB +.  Please tell me about my memory savings again.

                                 

                                I paid about $24,000 for a dual socket, 8 core/socket, 256GB server about a year ago.  The cost today would be even less.  The current vSphere licensing will cost me about $18,000.  If I add SnS costs over four years to the price my VMware costs are more than the price of the server.

                                • 688. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                                  egray Enthusiast

                                  One vCenter Server can handle multiple pools, there is no need to set up multiple to accommodate different editions.

                                  • 689. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                                    Dracolith Enthusiast
                                    Go back to statistics 101.  You have a margin of error ~9%.

                                    You only have 9% assuming a representative sample.  If your sample is non-representative,  the actual error may be much much larger.

                                    So a valid question is... which customers did VMware gather data from, and in what manner did they pick them?

                                     

                                    I suppose if  95% of their customers are VMware Workstation/VMware Fusion buyers with no production ESXi deployment,

                                    the move to vRAM in  ESXi  will not effect 95% of customers.

                                     

                                    OR   "the current level of entitlements will satisfy the requirements of over 95% of our customer base.

                                    [As soon as they finish purchasing the additional licenses from us,  they will be 'satisfied'  based on 'our definition of satisfied']"

                                     

                                    To be any kind of decent too, especially considering the confusion of vRAM and people's inability to distinguish "cost now, vs cost later" and people thinking they'll be paying less (hah, no, sorry, vRAM licencing is still pCPU bound) shows that basically you need to gather infrastructure and license numbers and crunch it yourself to be any kind of accurate.

                                     

                                    At the very least VMware's argument that they are simplifying licensing is total bunk.

                                     

                                    If they were simplifying it, you  wouldn't need  "special tools"   to   "analyze it",

                                    and by analyze it they mean   "present you the data the way VMware wants you to see it",

                                    so that it 'looks like'  up front it might not cost you much.

                                     

                                    Meanwhile, the licensing is more restrictive,  and has removed your ability to fully utilize your hardware --

                                    it is essentially a major reduction in  vSphere PER-LICENSE  / PER-APPLICATION  consolidation efficiency,

                                    artificially introduced....

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