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      • 525. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
        DSTAVERT Guru
        User Moderators

        My point is other than getting on record, talk directly to the people who can sit down and see your problem and perhaps do something. Just complaining doesn't necessarily help anything. After a while it is just more noise. If your VMware rep sat down with you and worked through your individual case they would have something concrete to present to management.

        • 526. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
          bilalhashmi Hot Shot

          True and how many business out there utilize them? They are mostly used by the big players at least a majority of those tools are.

           

          MS OS and products like office are all over the place regardless...

           

          Follow me @ Cloud-Buddy.com

          • 527. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
            wdroush1 Hot Shot

            DSTAVERT wrote:

             

            My point is other than getting on record, talk directly to the people who can sit down and see your problem and perhaps do something. Just complaining doesn't necessarily help anything. After a while it is just more noise. If your VMware rep sat down with you and worked through your individual case they would have something concrete to present to management.

            I'll be talking to our partner on Monday after dicussing the situation with our company, but I also need to make my frustration known publically, not just internally.

            • 528. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
              bilalhashmi Hot Shot

              Thank you for your comments. I think its a reasonable request to make. But again in spite of all that we should still run the scripts to figure out the difference in cost in all our envirnoments regardless... just to have an idea..

               

              Follow me @ Cloud-Buddy.com

              • 529. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                FREDYz Novice

                I think that shouldn't be any caps on per CPU at all, maybe per host on physical RAM as used to be before.

                As the coleague said the oversubscrition makes less sense now.

                For those who are looking for alternatives, aren't you guys seriously considering Hyper-V ?!?! Xen fine, but Hyper-V? Come on.

                Linux KVM is the guy comming to stay and enterprise ready.

                • 530. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                  ITDir Novice

                    I have a network to run.  The last thing I need is to have to spend time "getting help" from third parties so I can "understand the impact on my organization" when I changed nothing.  VMware changed their licensing model.

                   

                  Lame, lame, lame.

                   

                  And, yes, I can stay on 4.1.  But I doubt VMware is willing to refund me my annual subscription costs and allow me to use less expensive "pay-per-incident" support.  So for our shop, the impact is I should not have purchased dual-socket Cisco UCS servers with 192GB of RAM.  To fully leverage those servers under v5.0, I have to spend more on VMware licenses than I actually spent on the Cisco hardware.

                   

                  Again, lame.

                  • 531. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                    wdroush1 Hot Shot

                    Bilal wrote:

                     

                    Thank you for your comments. I think its a reasonable request to make. But again in spite of all that we should still run the scripts to figure out the difference in cost in all our envirnoments regardless... just to have an idea..

                     

                    Follow me @ Cloud-Buddy.com

                    A lot of the issue doesn't stem from "what we're currently using" so much as the glass ceiling this imposes on us, which is one of the main reasons we want to virtualize.

                     

                     

                    Sure, let's say I'm maybe at like 90% utilization of available RAM (being as now we allocate on vRAM) under the new licencing model (in theory, we're buying soon so really the numbers are totally screwed for us)... sure I don't have to buy anymore licenses, VMWare is saying I'm perfect under their new licencing model! However before I was at 40% utilization of RAM (being as all we cared about then was pRAM) under my old license. I have a lot of room to grow and could provision a VM without second though and allocate one-server-per-service setups without a thought. Now I have to start consolidating RAM usage... VMWare is taking that freedom away from me and binding me tightly again. I might as well buy physical hardware if I want to deal with this "go ask accounting" every time I want to spin up a handful of machines again.

                     

                     

                    This would only be good if VMWare was announcing that 95% of us would be paying less and only 5% of us would be paying the same. As opposed to what we have now, which is that 95% of us will have a glass ceiling imposed on us, and 5% of us are having to pay out the ass to stay were we are.

                    • 532. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                      wdroush1 Hot Shot

                      Fernando wrote:

                       

                      get rid of the 'genius' who came up with this idea.    

                      In before they give this guy a reward or something.

                       

                      http://events.computerworld.com/ehome/CWHONORS2011/21133/?&categoryid=57262&%3FWT.ac=fr_hp_sp3r2

                       

                      Oops too late.

                      • 533. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                        DSTAVERT Guru
                        User Moderators

                        Everyone understands the frustration. Anytime there are changes to licensing it will have impact and frustration. Have you run one of the scripts and posted the results? Just post after post doesn't do much other than increase the noise and dilute the real value of how a particular situation is impacted.

                        • 534. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                          wdroush1 Hot Shot

                          DSTAVERT wrote:

                           

                          Everyone understands the frustration. Anytime there are changes to licensing it will have impact and frustration. Have you run one of the scripts and posted the results? Just post after post doesn't do much other than increase the noise and dilute the real value of how a particular situation is impacted.

                          The script doesn't take into account the ability to grow, just whether or not we have to spend money the day they roll out the new licencing, which is a brilliant way for VMWare to dodge the issue.

                           

                          Though I'll be glad to grab all of our physical statistics and post it, our planned VMWare infrastructure as of 4.x, the cost, the cost of 5.x, and the cost to spin up more VMs before and after, and basically how they took VMWare's TCO and bumped it higher in a time when other Hypervisors are catching up. Remember we're looking at "$x to get started, plus ability to grow to y consumption for not any more money except hardware", now it's basically "get gutted every step of the way with VMWare only, where all other Hypervisors don't".

                           

                           

                          I can understand why vEs want to wave their hand and say everything will be ok, being as you guys have spent a decent amount of money in certs and the like, but if anything I think you guys should be the most upset considering how many partners and vendors are having canceled orders.

                           

                          And again, we have to talk to accounting about these things, I can't wave my hand and start talking about how "well, we don't have to pay anymore now, but if our VMs need some extra RAM, it's going to be a few grand for the RAM, and $7k for the licencing". They'll start asking why don't we go Hyper-V again.

                          • 535. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                            Ohhno Novice

                            Well mr Dstavert.. Just as someone else pointed out if it was a change that was fair then OK... But this change is just right stupid!

                            • 536. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                              DSTAVERT Guru
                              User Moderators

                              I am not trying to defend VMware. Changing licensing models are a fact of life and happen all the time. The first I remember affecting me was Microsoft NT 3.1 where there were no CALs required. Big change in NT 3.5. From what I understand the VMware change was not expected to affect very many situations. If it has directly affected you it is important to make your case and get VMware involved. If there are more affected than the expected numbers then it is far more important to post numbers and situations than just firing off insults. Get the numbers before the people that can make a difference. Post them here http://communities.vmware.com/thread/321065?tstart=0

                              • 537. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                                bilalhashmi Hot Shot

                                DSTAVERT wrote:

                                 

                                I am not trying to defend VMware. Changing licensing models are a fact of life and happen all the time. The first I remember affecting me was Microsoft NT 3.1 where there were no CALs required. Big change in NT 3.5. From what I understand the VMware change was not expected to affect very many situations. If it has directly affected you it is important to make your case and get VMware involved. If there are more affected than the expected numbers then it is far more important to post numbers and situations than just firing off insults. Get the numbers before the people that can make a difference. Post them here http://communities.vmware.com/thread/321065?tstart=0

                                I think what DSTAVERT is suggesting is reasonable guys. Let's act like professionals here and follow the process. Its understood that you guys are less than pleased with what has happened. Let's do what has been put in place to rectify that.

                                 

                                Follow me @ Cloud-Buddy.com

                                • 538. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                                  pwylie Novice

                                  bilalhashmi wrote:

                                   

                                  I think what DSTAVERT is suggesting is reasonable guys. Let's act like  professionals here and follow the process. Its understood that you guys  are less than pleased with what has happened. Let's do what has been put  in place to rectify that.

                                   

                                   

                                  What process?  What has been put in place?  Are you saying that running some scripts that some volunteers put together will somehow rectify things?  Those scripts only tell you what you're using today, not what you'll be using tomorrow, next month, or next year.

                                   

                                  If I run those scripts today, they'll tell me nothing useful.  My current ESX hosts have 32GB of RAM each.  I'm running Enterprise, so even with aggressive RAM oversubscription (which I haven't yet needed to do), I'd show no need for additional licensing under the new licensing regime.

                                   

                                  However, those scripts can't take into account the huge new ERP application I'm just about to roll out--one which is going to use enough RAM that I'm going to be replacing my current servers with ones that have 96GB of RAM apiece.  And you can forget about maxing those servers out to the 288GB they can hold.

                                   

                                  I'm staying on ESX 4.1 for the foreseeable future.  Fortunately, in my environment, I don't foresee needing to add ESX/ESXi hosts for at least the next three years, so I can probably just stay on 4.1.  But other customers aren't so lucky, and some of them will get absolutely hammered from this new pricing model.

                                  • 539. Re: vSphere 5 Licensing
                                    DSTAVERT Guru
                                    User Moderators

                                    Complaining here does nothing for any of your future plans. Make your VMware rep aware of your future plans and how you may be affected in the future.

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