11 Replies Latest reply on Sep 27, 2010 4:35 PM by pdp2shirts

    Hard to believe this is GA code

    lusid1 Novice

      Just read the install guide while the bits downloaded, its not pretty.  Layers of dependencies and configuration tweaks, and at the bottom of the stack its RHEL and and mandatory install of Oracle.  Weren't we we just making fun of them in the keynote last week? 

       

      Why isn't this an OVF built on redistrubutable components?

       

       

       

      Is it worth putting up with Larry to make this work?

        • 1. Re: Hard to believe this is GA code
          cvbarney Enthusiast

           

          Totally agree!

           

           

          Where is de OVF deployment like the new vShield products? And why Oracle as only database in the first version?! Because Oracle recognised and supported VMware so well with it's crazy license structure?  I don't get it VMware guys and like the other people here a little bit disappointed.

           

           

          The keynote was so clear about VMware's vision but nothing from that is used in the installation and requirements from  this product

           

           

          I'm looking forward to 2.0 with as OVF and PostgreSQL database support, without commercial dependencies.

           

           

          • 2. Re: Hard to believe this is GA code
            edinel Enthusiast
            VMware Employees

             

            Folks--

             

             

              Thanks very much for the feedback.  We do take this kind of feedback seriously, and, as you may well surmise, what you've said isn't new to us.  We take the requests for other DBs and other methods for deployment very seriously.  

             

             

               

             

             

            --

            Eddie Dinel

            Senior Product Manager

             

             

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Hard to believe this is GA code
              RParker Guru

              Where is de OVF deployment like the new vShield products? And why Oracle as only database in the first version?!

               

              No what gets me is how you people continue to rant and rave WITHOUT considering what VM Ware had to do to get to this point.

               

              A) Oracle is a recognized, solid, compatible product.  Not seeing a problem there.

              B) Stability is KEY to VM Ware success.  So they use a streamlined product to get things going.  Once they remove other barriers LATER I am sure you will get what you want.  As you said "first version".  give it time, for crying out loud!

              C) YOU are the only ones complaining, and if you think outside the box, you will realize that in order to develop a product you have to NOT only add-in contingency for when other 3rd party products DON'T work, they have to figure a work around.  So to get things moving, they adopted Oracle, it works, it's functional, and let's not forget.. Oracle is a PROVEN product, that should be QUITE enough.

               

              BESIDES which you are focusing on the ancillary.. you aren't USING oracle, it's just the database that was chosen to give this product the BEST performance.. thats what you are COMPLETELY overlooking, performance is the KEY NOT convenience.  And in this case convenience is installing something that's a standard.  OK, so it wasn't included.  THINK about what you are saying.. just THINK.  Who makes Oracle, eh?  VM Ware?  uh.. no.  Micrsoft.. uh no.  It's ORACLE.  Maybe Oracle has license limitations (and therefore restrictions on including it with other products) on THEIR product, so that including outdated run times / engines COULD cause issues later, and it has (java for one, isn't included either).  So before you go complaining and trying to poke holes.. try just TRY to consider that MAYBE there is a good reason.  Not just merely "Oh my gawd, I actually have to install 2 more steps.. oh noes...!!!"  It's part of the install, not intended to make extra work for you.

               

              I'm looking forward to 2.0 with as OVF and PostgreSQL database support, without commercial dependencies.

               

              Commercial doesn't mean STANDARD, it means $$$.  Did you know Oracle is a FREE product, so technically it's NOT commercial product either, since it's FREE.

              • 4. Re: Hard to believe this is GA code
                lusid1 Novice

                Thanks for the post Eddie. Glad the feedback makes it to the pm.

                 

                At least you are in a position to do something about it.

                • 5. Re: Hard to believe this is GA code
                  lusid1 Novice
                  RParker wrote:

                  Did you know Oracle is a FREE product, so technically it's NOT commercial product either, since it's FREE.

                   

                   

                  What do you mean by free?

                   

                  I am aware oracle has a free edition, but according to the vcloud docs its not listed as a supported database.  The minimum point of entry for a supported edition appears to be about $10k. I don't have an instance of oracle running anywhere in the world. We have always shunned them due to their anti-vmware stance.  Its ironic that the first licence we buy would be to run a vmware product.

                   

                  edit: looks like retail is $17.5k/proc. With 1 year of support its over $20k/proc.

                  • 6. Re: Hard to believe this is GA code
                    cvbarney Enthusiast

                    Thanks Eddie for your reply. vCloud Director will be more succesfull without Oracle and RedHat dependencies. Just use your Suse partnership and also adopt the good and stable opensource databases.

                     

                    I'm glad RParker (or should I say Larry Ellison?) is not the PM with his tunnel vision. Please check your keyboard: you SHIFT is stuck! With guys like you Microsoft is the only OS and Oracle the only database... We have used Oracle and save tons of money now since PostgreSQL is a really free/stable alternative. Oracle free? Don't make me...

                    • 7. Re: Hard to believe this is GA code
                      Petter Lindgren Enthusiast

                      I was also disappointed when I did the lab at VMworld and found out that I had to install Oracle.

                      We have a couple of Oracle servers in our datacenter and they are stable but so are our SQL servers and all of our other databases.

                       

                      I do think that it's a must to support both PostgreSQL and MSSQL.

                      The most important thing for an application to run stable is to have employees with expert knowledge about the applications in use.

                      Hence, I would prefer MSSQL support myself so we could run the database on our SQL 2008 Cluster.

                       

                      And as said before, Oracle is very expensive.

                      • 8. Re: Hard to believe this is GA code
                        depping Champion
                        User ModeratorsVMware Employees

                        every product has dependencies / constraints / requirements. vCD requires Oracle and Redhat, although it will work with CentOS and Oracle Express it is not supported currently. Eddie, as the PM, will most definitely take this feedback and ensure it is addressed in the near future. When that will be? No one is allowed to comment on it.

                         



                        Duncan

                        VMware Communities User Moderator | VCDX

                        -


                        Now available: Paper - vSphere 4.0 Quick Start Guide (via amazon.com) | PDF (via lulu.com)

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                        • 9. Re: Hard to believe this is GA code
                          lusid1 Novice

                          The high cost of Oracle has killed the vCD pilot project for my 2011 budget cycle.   The rest of its issues were survivable, Oracle was not.

                           

                          Hopefully Eddie can have this addressed by VMworld2011.

                          • 10. Re: Hard to believe this is GA code
                            depping Champion
                            User ModeratorsVMware Employees

                            They are working on it, I can assure you this!

                             



                            Duncan

                            VMware Communities User Moderator | VCDX

                            -


                            Now available: Paper - vSphere 4.0 Quick Start Guide (via amazon.com) | PDF (via lulu.com)

                            Blogging: http://www.yellow-bricks.com | Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/DuncanYB

                            • 11. Re: Hard to believe this is GA code
                              pdp2shirts Enthusiast

                               

                              Lusid1

                               

                               

                              I believe that if you are doing a POC you can use Oracle bits for free. It is only once you move the environment into production that you need to pay for the product and for support. Check out http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/indexes/downloads/index.html

                               

                               

                              Paul D. Pindell VCP4