Yes, this is a huge problem for me as well. I need to do R2 testing on top of ESX, and the only way is to dual boot my PC into bare metal ESX to do testing. In addition products like Exchange 2007, 2010, etc. are 64-bit only. In order to perform my testing duties of new products, I need to do nested 64-bit VMs. Peformance is NOT a concern....I need to be able to launch the VMs. Even if there is a 10, 20 or 30 percent performance hit, that is acceptable in a test/dev environment and is preferrable to booting my machine into bare metal ESX.
CPU that are required for 64-bit Guest OSes in ESX are not passed through when the ESX host is a VM in VMware workstation.
That's correct it's not LONGER hardware, it's a Virtual BIOS, with Virtual Memory and Virtual CPU, you can't pass hardware capabilitiies via a pass thru. No Virtualization can.
it greatly limits the usefulness of running ESX labs in Workstation.
Only becuase that's the way you CHOOSE to do it. nothing stopping you from installing ESX bare metal, which is the way it's designed, not running VM within a VM.
I need to be able to launch the VMs. Even if there is a 10, 20 or 30 percent performance hit, that is acceptable in a test/dev environment and is preferrable to booting my machine into bare metal ESX.
So make a case for having someone buy you a TEST server then, and do your TESTING on that server.
ESX is a bare metal install.. That's it.
ESX is a bare metal install.. That's it.
ESX is just another operating system.
Having VT support for nested VMs in Workstation would really be a great progress.
Not only to test 64bit VMs in a virtual ESX but also to test Hyper-V and XEN-server.
ESX is NOT a bare metal install in all cases; production..yes...test/dev..not always. VMware made specific changes to Workstation 7 to allow easy installation of ESX as a VM. There is clear market demand for testing purposes to run ESX inside of Workstation 7. However the utility is GREATLY reduced since it doesn't support 64-bit nested VMs. VMware needs to fix that. We are not talking about production servers here, but rather a test environment.
And no, I'm not buying a dedicated PC for running ESX at home. That's silly and not needed if VMware can fix Workstation 7.
Adding VT-support for nested VMs is NOT an easy fix - not at all.
If you follow jmattsons posts (VMware employee) this requires major changes. He says that we can't expect this any time soon.
By the way - I see no big change regarding this problem in Workstation 7. Workstation 6.5.3 could run ESX as VM same as WS 7. WS 7 just added a this to the GUI options for new VMs.
Thank you for the suggestion. As Ulli notes, it requires significant effort to virtualize VT-x and AMD-V. However, it is possible.
It is also possible to virtualize segment limit checking in 64-bit mode, which is available on most AMD64 processors, and which allows binary translation of 64-bit guests. That requires less effort.
> ESX is just another operating system
Umm.. I think someone needs to read up on HARDWARE architecture. Did you miss the part about BIOS and HARDWARE layers?
Did you not take an A++ class? You can't pass hardware via software, it's impossible. The VT are at the hardware layer, because the "other" OS makes it available to the subsequent VM's. A virtualzation product virtualizes the hardware, so that's no longer "hardware" thus no capability to this. That's why they are called VIRTUAL machines.
I am surprised by your comments, I have followed your posts, you really seem like you are an intelligent person, you can't make software do what the hardware can. The 64-bit instructions are at the hardware layer, not software.
Next you are going to tell me you can Virtualize x86 machines under Power Platform and Sun as well? Those have been around for decades (LAPAR's) and THEY can't do it either.... They are JUST another OS as well.
There are just some things you can't recreate using software, VM's are not for everyone.
> And no, I'm not buying a dedicated PC for running ESX at home. That's silly and not needed if VMware can fix Workstation 7.
Fine don't buy a dedicated PC, no one is asking you to. It's not silly just because you don't understand intel processors and hardare instructions.
What's silly is what you are asking, and before you can discuss the how and why you must have knowledge. I suggest you use the money you save by switching to Geico and not buying hardware, and go buy a BOOK on ESX Virtualization, Intel x86 instructions, and learn why this is not possible.
Instructions sets are built into the processor. The VT extensions are just that, hooks into the processor. x86 Processors are built by Intel, proprietary, copywrited, protected hardware. Even if VM Could (and they can't) reproduce a processor completely, they can't because of laws.
Despite the fact that this is an impossible task because instructions are at the hardware layer, which software emulates, and the hypervisor passes these instructions to the hardware, a Virtual machine cannot reproduce and entire physical machine.
So you will NOT see this capability. If you truly need separate machines, and since you are talking about Workstation, you can't simply buy a $300.00 machine to do this? a headless machine, no monitor, no keyboard.. put ESX on it.
And do you REALLY need 64-bit for training / testing purposes? I think not. 32-bit will work just fine....
The suggestion has been noted by a VMware employee and the thread has been locked.
Did you not take an A++ class?
please don't use that tone.
Next you are going to tell me you can Virtualize x86 machines under Power Platform and Sun as well?
why would I do that ? - thats a different platform.
ESX , Linux, Windows are operating systems running on i386 platforms.
Just because ESX is smaller and supports less hardware or directly use special CPU functions does not mean it is no operating system