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1 2 Previous Next 26 Replies Last post: May 17, 2006 6:55 AM by samwyse  

Size of virtual appliance? posted: Mar 7, 2006 12:50 PM

Click to view trevlix's profile Novice 20 posts since
Mar 1, 2006
I've been looking at the community virtual appliances and the uncompressed sizes range from 8 MB to over 700 MB.

What is everyone's opinions on a good size for one? Obviously, the smaller the better and the size will all depend on what is inside, but at what point does it become too big?

Re: Size of virtual appliance?

1. Mar 7, 2006 3:49 PM in response to: trevlix
Click to view Alessandro_Perilli's profile Enthusiast 198 posts since
Aug 29, 2003
Hi Tyler,
I personally believe that you should use as metric the actual stardard size for USB keys.

I think that the most sold today is the 256MB. So, I woudn't create a Virtual Appliance occupying more that this size (including VMware Player and documentation).

HTH

Alessandro Perilli, CISSP, MVP
http://www.alessandroperilli.com

Blogging about IT Security on http://www.securityzero.com
Blogging about Virtualization on http://www.virtualization.info

Re: Size of virtual appliance?

3. Mar 8, 2006 6:45 AM in response to: trevlix
Click to view continuum's profile Guru 12,624 posts since
Dec 18, 2003
Trevlix - don't read Allesandros suggestion to strictly.

I doubt you will have good results when you start with:
"I got 25MB to fill - what can I do that fits ...?"

I'd suggest that you think about a task and a convincing solution first - if your VM can find someones "Love of your life" in 5 seconds and this function depends on a large image-collection of little green frogs - 300MB for a image-database is more than justified.
It doesn't make sense to pay the 256MB size with a 50% divorce-rate 5 years later ;-)

Ulli

Re: Size of virtual appliance?

4. Mar 8, 2006 6:53 AM in response to: trevlix
Click to view Alessandro_Perilli's profile Enthusiast 198 posts since
Aug 29, 2003
Assuming all said till now is a winning strategy I really believe the problem here is the starting focus.

I have the impressions many are trying to "simply" fit a whole Linux distro inside the virtual appliance with some nifty application on top.
I'm not sure this is enough to win $100,000 (and sincerely I hope not).

Coming from the IT security planet an appliance is an extreme tailored OS around a hardware set, doing nothing but the task advertised.
This approach leads to a very small, very fast, very simple-to-manage (well, apart Cisco stuffs) boxes companies not having money to invest in know-how are happy to buy.

I think this approach should be applied in a virtual appliance too, considering average RAM available in an average desktop computer and average media vectors (IMHO thinking the Virtual Appliance will move around by CDRom is not a positive starting point).

So, at the end of the day, I'm wondering how space could take a Linux kernel without anything but 1 or 2 packages (let's say even 10 of them) to provide the feature you're looking for. More than 192MB?
(just consider Damn Small Linux is desktop distribution working in 50mb space).

BTW: you may find interesting VMware Challenge suggestions:
http://www.virtualization.info/2006/03/vmware-challenge-suggestions.html

HTH

Alessandro Perilli, CISSP, MVP
http://www.alessandroperilli.com

Blogging about IT Security on http://www.securityzero.com
Blogging about Virtualization on http://www.virtualization.info

Re: Size of virtual appliance?

6. Mar 8, 2006 3:25 PM in response to: trevlix
Click to view continuum's profile Guru 12,624 posts since
Dec 18, 2003
oops - double post

Re: Size of virtual appliance?

8. Mar 12, 2006 10:28 PM in response to: trevlix
Click to view Dallas's profile Enthusiast 81 posts since
Feb 6, 2006
This goes against the norm, smaller the better. When you surf through the entries are you going to down load a 2 gig double zipped monster or a 20-30 meg VM. The smaller, cleaner and more dedicated to its task the VM is, will result in more down loads even if it is just to see what it does.

A VM based on the Linux Disk Router Project, could be very small maybe 3-5 megs.

Re: Size of virtual appliance?

9. Mar 13, 2006 5:18 AM in response to: Dallas
Click to view RDPetruska's profile Guru 15,875 posts since
Jan 11, 2005
A VM based on the Linux Disk Router Project, could be very small maybe 3-5 megs.
Actually, there's one out there with FreeSco, configured, @ 1.41 MB. Check out vmguru.com :-)

Re: Size of virtual appliance?

10. Mar 13, 2006 5:16 PM in response to: trevlix
Click to view anoop's profile Novice 18 posts since
Aug 3, 2005
Ok. so its a 2GB limit. Does that include everything the appliance needs? What if the appliance needs a passthrough lun or a vmdk mounted for storing data?

is that to be included in the 2GB as well?

thanks

Re: Size of virtual appliance?

11. Mar 13, 2006 9:14 PM in response to: anoop
Click to view bac's profile Expert 597 posts since
Dec 29, 2004
Ok. so its a 2GB limit. Does that include everything
the appliance needs? What if the appliance needs a
passthrough lun or a vmdk mounted for storing data?

is that to be included in the 2GB as well?


Bear in mind that the whole idea of the appliance is that it should be pre-configured; the idea is that you should be able to download the thing and it should do whatever it does without any additional configuration on the part of the end user. Consider in particular that the Appliance should be able to be run in VMware Player, which has no UI for making configuration changes. So your entry should probably not include any instructions like "Download this appliance, then add a new .vmdk file, then...".

Anyway I think the rule is that the file limit applies to the compressed size of your entry, period. I.e. whatever it is you upload to our server to be judged (and therefore, whatever a potential user would download to use) has to fit in the size limit. If your VM had a growable .vmdk that started out empty but grew once it was used, I think that would be ok as long as the VM started out under the limit.

Re: Size of virtual appliance?

12. Mar 14, 2006 11:36 AM in response to: trevlix
Click to view anoop's profile Novice 18 posts since
Aug 3, 2005
thanks for that clarification.

as long as it runs on Player, it qualifies right?

but what about in an enterprise level environment where more data could be stored or perhaps the retention period for data is longer and so it occupies more space?

in that case, 2GB won't be nearly enough i think.

Re: Size of virtual appliance?

13. Mar 14, 2006 1:18 PM in response to: anoop
Click to view RDPetruska's profile Guru 15,875 posts since
Jan 11, 2005
OK... Not sure how much clearer this can be...

Your Zip file which you submit must be no larger than 2 GB. If it extracts out and is 100 Gb in size it is still legitimate! (not that I believe anything could be compressed quite that much, but I'm trying to make a point here).

Re: Size of virtual appliance?

14. Apr 3, 2006 10:36 PM in response to: trevlix
Click to view Dallas's profile Enthusiast 81 posts since
Feb 6, 2006
Thought I would post that my VM w/tools is 202 megs, without tools installed 87 megs. I will submit both versions, maybe?

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