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12 Replies Last post: Nov 5, 2009 6:46 AM by DSTAVERT  

2 x Dual Core Cpu's or 4 x Dual core Cpu's ???? posted: Nov 4, 2009 12:39 PM

Click to view styler4077's profile Novice 3 posts since
Nov 4, 2009

A simple first question :-)

We wish to replace our collection of 5 servers

A P3 running smoothwall, a P4 running Windows Web Server, a Dual Athlon MP file server, a Dual (single core) Opteron running Windows Terminal Server and a Dual (dual core) Opteron system running Windows Exchange 2008.

The aim is to reduce our power consumption, update the server to newer hardware, make the hardware work harder.

We are in the fortunate position to be able to build a dual or quad (dual core) single system with 16Mb or 32Mb of ram and a new'ish back end file server to hold the VRM's and other data .

In ESXi4 we can I beleive use either two or four physical processors (but only 4 cores max per VM). My question is should we use two or four physical processors? from reading the forum in seams to me that more physical processors may slow things down not speed them up?

Many thanks

styler4077

Click to view DSTAVERT's profile Virtuoso 2,418 posts since
Nov 30, 2003
You don't have anything that would demand anything beyond a single core. A new dual processor quad core server can easily handle 10 VMs and more depending on load. I would make sure you have a quality server chosen from the Hardware Compatibility list rather than building one. The server should have a hardware RAID controller with cache and battery. Redundant fans and power supplies. Reliability is far more important when you are hosting multiple guests.
Click to view KyNetGuy's profile Novice 6 posts since
Nov 4, 2009

I would opt for (and use in my data center) 2 quad cores.

In my tests I found that 2 quads often out performed 4 duals when tested with same or very close Mhz procs. You have to remember that the evolution of processors constantly give better efficiency and memory usage. Quad cores being the more advanced processors, often out perform. It is not just a game of sockets and Mhz. As far as VMWare is concerned, you are allocating cores as processors in the VM. So from a performance perspective, I do not feel you would see any measurable difference between a 2-way quad or a 4-way dual.

What you DO gain is a decrease TCO. VMWare, and many utilies that you can use to manage and monitor your enviroment, license on sockets, not cores. And your VMs see cores, not sockets. SO, if you can get the same bang for your buck, why not cut the licensing cost in half and go witht he quad cores?

As for exchange, it is going to max out memory. It's like SQL in that if it gets the memory, it grabs it and holds it. These should typically be separate boxes or VMs for that reason. Unless either is for a very small enviroment.

I would use the VMWare licensing savings for some good utilities or more memory. I would recommend a minimum of 16GB, though I prefer 32GB or more. Our standard config is 64 GB. As in many things, memory gives more bang for the buck than Mhz.

As for Terminal services, feed it memory. Gigs and Gigs of memory. :-)


Click to view DSTAVERT's profile Virtuoso 2,418 posts since
Nov 30, 2003
2 not 4 pCPU for sure. Start everything off with 1 vCPU and add a second if testing / monitoring suggests a second. Don't go beyond 2 as it usually causes scheduling issues.

Make sure you have a hardware RAID controller with cache and battery.
Click to view AlbertWT's profile Expert 456 posts since
Apr 7, 2009

Yes, I'd go with the latest CPU if posible (Intel Nehalem) and then enable the EPT + VTx option for the terminal server VM.

and as for the Exchange Server VM enable the large page support on the Windows(through secpol.msc)

source: http://deinoscloud.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/hardware-assisted-memory-management-unit-mmu-virtualization/

hope that helps

Kind Regards,
AWT

Click to view J1mbo's profile Expert 565 posts since
May 20, 2009

Note there are differences between chips - for example AMD Opteron's all have a memory controller on-board, whilst most Intel processors make do with a single front-side bus. That said I believe the Xeon 55xx series processors are more like Opterons - you may wish to do some reading.

As said though, a single quad-core device, especially if it's Xeon 55xx series, should be more than sufficent. Disk is always the point of contention IMO - better to get the capacity needed with more smaller disks, to get maximum concurrency. To echo the above, battery-backed write cache on your array controller is critical.

Please award points to any useful answer.

Re: 2 x Dual Core Cpu's or 4 x Dual core Cpu's ????

7. Nov 5, 2009 4:08 AM in response to: J1mbo
Click to view AlbertWT's profile Expert 456 posts since
Apr 7, 2009

Hi J1mbo,

May i know why array with battery can improve performance ? If the Server is off, does it still works to keep the time (eg. in BIOS) ?

Kind Regards,
AWT
Click to view J1mbo's profile Expert 565 posts since
May 20, 2009

Hi Albert

The battery on the raid controller isn't related to other onboard batteries like CMOS - and it's not so much that the BBWC improves the performance, rather that the lack of it destroys performance!

ESX must guarantee to the running VMs that disk writes are committed when that VM thinks they are, so ESX performs no write caching itself. Furthermore all array controllers with onboard cache will run in write-through mode without a battery - this is the issue. For each write command issued by a guest, the array controller must read the stripe, update the data and the parity, and write those back. So each underlying array stripe would have many individual updates applied, destroying write performance - typically we see 3 to 5 MB/s in this mode.

Add the battery, the array controller will flip to write-back mode, since in the event of power interuption, outstanding writes can be committed when power is restored (immediately after the array controller POST). Now ESX passes the writes as before, but they just sit in the controllers cache. Essentially the array controller then only physically commits the writes once it has a complete stripe dirty, or some other time period elapses, so the stripe is hit once in a block write scenario and with no read penalty at all. Then we see write speeds depending on the controller and disks - a simple 3 disk SATA RAID-5 might do 80MB/s.

HTH

Please award points to any useful answer.

Re: 2 x Dual Core Cpu's or 4 x Dual core Cpu's ????

10. Nov 5, 2009 5:10 AM in response to: J1mbo
Click to view AlbertWT's profile Expert 456 posts since
Apr 7, 2009

Many thanks for the explanation J1mbo.

Cheers,

Kind Regards,
AWT
Click to view KyNetGuy's profile Novice 6 posts since
Nov 4, 2009

Defnately go with the 2 box. If licensing cost is not an issue. You could institute High Availability and vMotion if you have shared storage between the two machines. (SAN or NAS) (There are also some SCSI drive enclosures that will allow two machines to connect to the same set of drives) If this could be incorporated in your setup you would benefite from load ballancing and redundancy. If one server chokes, vMotion will move the VM to the still operating box and keep things running. As well it will ballance out the CPU/Memory load on eeach physical box.


Click to view DSTAVERT's profile Virtuoso 2,418 posts since
Nov 30, 2003
Make sure the BIOS in the machine supports hardware virtualization if you want to support 64Bit OS. The 800 series processors were towards the beginning of hardware virtualization and depending on the series, may or may not support it. You may be as well off with 3.5 if the hardware doesn't support 64bit VMs.

I would do multiple machines and spread the load.

ESXi has a single LUN capacity limit of just under 2TB so you will need to create multiple arrays or virtual disks depending on your RAID controller.

ESXi does not have support for UPS so you will need to find some way to do an orderly shutdown. Some UPS software can communicate via the network and hybernate. There is also a script that can help shutdown the VM's.

I would do as much testing as you can before even considering going live. You want to understand as much as you can especially with multiple offices.

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