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12 Replies Last post: Nov 6, 2009 12:45 PM by king@it.ibm.c…  

VM Density posted: Oct 31, 2009 7:58 AM

Click to view lastat77's profile Novice 3 posts since
Oct 8, 2009
I have a client considering a move to all virtualization. They have 12 WinXP desktops and one SQL Server on Windows 2KSMB. I would like to understand how many XP workstations can run per CPU and RAM level. Is ESXi the best route or vSphere? I am thinking each VM would be configured with 2 virtual processors and 4 Gig RAM. Will something like a Sun Fire x4140 handle this workload well - assume dual Gb load balanced NAS in RAID 5 as the storage NOT a fiber SAN.

Ideas?

Re: VM Density

2. Oct 31, 2009 8:21 AM in response to: lastat77
Click to view AndreTheGiant's profile Guru 5,984 posts since
Aug 28, 2008
Do not use more vCPU if you do not really need them.
For XP desktop in a virtual environment usually 1 vCPU and 512 MB could be fine.

Is ESXi the best route or vSphere?
vSphere is only a set of technology (the old name was virtual infrastructure).
ESXi 4.0 is part of vSphere.

Andre

Re: VM Density

3. Nov 1, 2009 8:43 PM in response to: AndreTheGiant
Click to view azn2kew's profile Champion 2,941 posts since
Jun 21, 2006
Standard practice is 4 VMs per core for general servers and if this is for VDI solution, you can safely have 6-8 XP machine per core. Dell written a paper about VDI & ESX solution, they tested nicely with 64VMs/32GB RAM ESX host. Each XP VM use 512MB so you're be fine since ESX has great page sharing technique that you regain approximately 13GB of ram out of 32GB on the host.

If you found this information useful, please consider awarding points for "Correct" or "Helpful". Thanks!!!

Regards,

Stefan Nguyen
VMware vExpert 2009
iGeek Systems Inc.
VMware, Citrix, Microsoft Consultant

Re: VM Density

5. Nov 5, 2009 9:33 PM in response to: lastat77
Click to view AndreTheGiant's profile Guru 5,984 posts since
Aug 28, 2008
SO just XP workstations on ESXi I can do 6-8 per core not over allotting RAM.
Yes, also ESX transparent paging sharing feature can reduce the real physical memory require for all your VM (cause a lot of memory will be the same).

For a SQL server with medium to low demand Give it maybe 2 cores and a gig of RAM?
It depends... Maybe in this case also the disk I/O could be important.

Andre

Re: VM Density

6. Nov 6, 2009 2:53 AM in response to: lastat77
Click to view awliste's profile Enthusiast 44 posts since
Jun 10, 2009
Could approach this like this as well:

Make your XP VMs, "give" them 2G of memory, but set a limit of 512M.

This a) appears to the guest that they have 2G of RAM, b) allows the hypervisor to allocate less resources to that guest (and TPS can do wonders here), and c) if a user complains about a slow machine, you can dispense the resources as you see fit up to 2G.

It's a pump fake, yes. But I subscribe to the school of "If my users are complaining that they're using 95% of the resources I've given them, I've given them 5% too much".

Good luck!
- Abe

Integritas!

Abe Lister

Just some guy that loves to virtualize
==============================
Ain't gonna lie. I like points. If what I'm saying is something useful to you, consider sliding me some points for it!

Re: VM Density

7. Nov 6, 2009 3:00 AM in response to: awliste
Click to view king@it.ibm.com's profile Virtuoso 2,927 posts since
Jan 16, 2004
Not to mention that if they "see" 2GB of RAM they won't even complain. I have a customer that was using this same method (and hyper-threading on physical servers) to cheat their end-users for servers type workloads.

Perception is reality.

Massimo.

Re: VM Density

8. Nov 6, 2009 5:14 AM in response to: awliste
Click to view pdrace's profile Expert 566 posts since
Dec 2, 2004

Really? I'm pretty sure that I read an article that setting a limit below the allocated amount could cause major performance issues based on how ESX handles this setting. I'll have to research it again, this was a while back.

I saw this in one case myself. I limited a server that was allocated 2.5 GB to 2 GB and performance plummeted even though the machine wasn't actually even consuming 2GB.

awliste wrote:Could approach this like this as well:

Make your XP VMs, "give" them 2G of memory, but set a limit of 512M.

This a) appears to the guest that they have 2G of RAM, b) allows the hypervisor to allocate less resources to that guest (and TPS can do wonders here), and c) if a user complains about a slow machine, you can dispense the resources as you see fit up to 2G.

It's a pump fake, yes. But I subscribe to the school of "If my users are complaining that they're using 95% of the resources I've given them, I've given them 5% too much".

Good luck!

  • Abe

Integritas!

Abe Lister

Just some guy that loves to virtualize
==============================
Ain't gonna lie. I like points. If what I'm saying is something useful to you, consider sliding me some points for it!

Re: VM Density

9. Nov 6, 2009 5:31 AM in response to: pdrace
Click to view awliste's profile Enthusiast 44 posts since
Jun 10, 2009
Hmm. I'd be interested in seeing that article when you find it. I run this configuration every day with my workstation boxes and I've never seen a hit. The clusters I have this process on are pretty dense - like I have to juggle the vcpu count per host dense.

I will say that I don't attempt this trick on my guest servers. Any server guest gets all of the resources I allocate to it.

Thanks for the heads up man!
- abe

Integritas!

Abe Lister

Just some guy that loves to virtualize
==============================
Ain't gonna lie. I like points. If what I'm saying is something useful to you, consider sliding me some points for it!

Re: VM Density

10. Nov 6, 2009 8:31 AM in response to: awliste
Click to view pdrace's profile Expert 566 posts since
Dec 2, 2004

Here it is:

Vmguru article

Re: VM Density

11. Nov 6, 2009 9:52 AM in response to: pdrace
Click to view awliste's profile Enthusiast 44 posts since
Jun 10, 2009
ROck on. Thanks man. I remember reading this article too. Suppose I've been lucky insomuch that most of my users aren't pegging their workstations.

I reckon that your article definitely plants a 'proceed with caution' flag on the limiting procedure, with a smaller flag of 'It depends on your solution' right next to it. The method I use works for my shop, though the risk I run is as the article defines. Never encountered it, but good to know. This might head off a problem in the future.

Found this one too (I was poking around looking for your article as well this morning... )

http://www.simonlong.co.uk/blog/2009/11/02/allocated-unlimited-memory-or-have-you/

More useful amplifying information.

Thanks man!
Regards,
- abe

Integritas!

Abe Lister

Just some guy that loves to virtualize
==============================
Ain't gonna lie. I like points. If what I'm saying is something useful to you, consider sliding me some points for it!

Re: VM Density

12. Nov 6, 2009 12:45 PM in response to: awliste
Click to view king@it.ibm.com's profile Virtuoso 2,927 posts since
Jan 16, 2004
I think that ultimately the scenarios where the unlimited thick box should be "unthicketed" are very niche compared to scenarios where you want it to be "thicketed" and perhaps reserve 50% or 33% (examples) of the assigned + shares to do the VMs ranking.

At the end of the day you want the ultimate "limit" to be the pRAM installed in the box vs a hard set limit on specific VMs (unless you are 100% sure that you won't use more than the reserve you specified (but if you are 100% sure why thicking it anyway as it's the end-user software that is going to limit itself).

I totally agree that this needs to be taken with a grain of salt. There are applications (SQL for example) that will tend to use all the memory that they see no matter what (and that's the assigned.... not the reserved). If all VMs are using software that behaves like this you'd better not even overcommitting memory...

Massimo.

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