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8 Replies Last post: Nov 22, 2009 4:17 AM by Iwan Rahabok  

Advice needed: virtual firewall product posted: Oct 28, 2009 8:59 AM

Click to view SBaldridge's profile Enthusiast 52 posts since
Jun 20, 2005

We are running vSphere vCenter and are migrating our ESX from 3.5 to 4 (like most others I bet), and now have a new requirement from our security group which they are hoping to fast track in this quarter. They like the Altor VF product as they are comfortable with those guys being ex-Checkpoint propeller-head types and it integrates with our current IDS gear. Altor's VF3 is also only 3-4 months out of Beta and one of the only vendors using fast-path so far (maybe Reflex is doing it too?). I should say that I am responsible to keep the infrastructure running and they are responsible for monitoring it. There seems to be a loggerhead here.

I have a huge problem with installing 3rd-party software at the host kernel level into our very stable environment. I've been steering the decision making toward the slow-path model instead. I'm very concerned that although a VMSafe implementation is certified by VMWare there will be a divergence between kernel compatibility at some point in the future... in other words, at some point we will do our monthly ESX patching and there will be a kernel panic that will kill my clusters because the 3rd-party software isn't certified with the newly-patched ESX kernel. We are not big enough to have a "test cluster", and although we test ESX patching on our test ESX, they are not clustered, and we've experienced cluster/HA problems just from ESX with different patch levels in the past, although that has improved a lot.

I was hoping I could get a discussion going that makes me feel better about this decision. My instincts tell me to go with vShield Zones and see what VMSafe implementation VMWare adopts for this product but our security folks want something RIGHT NOW.

Advice? Even if the discussion is non-vendor specific I could use some help.

Re: Advice needed: virtual firewall product

1. Oct 28, 2009 12:33 PM in response to: SBaldridge
Click to view tom howarth's profile Guru 7,361 posts since
Jul 25, 2005

Are you using the Nexus in your environment? if so vShields is not fully supported. asos the Nexus offers a lot that would interest your security team, things like the ability to set ACLs at the individual port level, SPAN and ERSPAN, Cisco Port security.

In my experiance it is the lack of visibility within the Host that scares security. With the nexus, security regain visibility back to point of origin rather than at point of egress..

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Tom Howarth VCP / vExpert
VMware Communities User Moderator
Blog: www.planetvm.net
Contributing author on "VMware vSphere and Virtual Infrastructure Security: Securing ESX and the Virtual Environment”. Currently available on roughcuts

Re: Advice needed: virtual firewall product

3. Oct 28, 2009 2:05 PM in response to: SBaldridge
Click to view aandriolli's profile Expert 172 posts since
May 2, 2007
I'd suggest you refrain from installing agents at the Service Console, always. Specially because ESXi is becoming more and more proeminent.

vShield Zones is already there, so no esxtra money for it - why don't give it a shot?



VMs Made in Brazil
PS: por favor considere dar pontos a este ou qualquer outro post caso lhe seja útil.

Re: Advice needed: virtual firewall product

5. Oct 31, 2009 10:12 AM in response to: SBaldridge
Click to view Texiwill's profile Guru 10,236 posts since
Jan 13, 2004
Hello,

Altor VF, and Reflex vTrust are great tools and use both the fastpath and slowpath components of VMsafe. THe fastpath for actually applying the rules to each packet as it traverses your vSwitch to the vNIC. The slowpath component is used to set rules and manage the VMsafe-net firewall.

Remember that the VMsafe-net component sits JUST before each vNIC on every VM. Not before the vSwitch.

As for your concern about VMware suddenly making a change.... I doubt that will happen. VMware has been very careful about this in the past and supports multiple levels of APIs and not just the latest. Look at the VI SDK if you are concerned about this.

However, to protect yourself there is an easy solution.... Contact the vendors to make sure they have tested their solution with the patch in question, then Test any patch before you place it into production. Retest, etc. Make sure you are truly comfortable with the update.

You are correct this is an important consideration for the future health of your infrastructure. The other protection you have is that any VMsafe drivers/Appliances you get, should be digitally signed by the vendor. You should verify that before you install anything.

It is also important to realize that your overall security will depend upon where these VMsafe Management appliances live within your environment.

You also need to understand how VMsafe works and how the players fit into it... check out http://www.virtualizationpractice.com/blog/?p=1296 as well as http://www.virtualizationpractice.com/blog/?p=930 for some details on the players as well as VMsafe itself so that you are more familiar with it.


Best regards,
Edward L. Haletky VMware Communities User Moderator, VMware vExpert 2009, Virtualization Practice Analyst
Now Available: 'VMware vSphere(TM) and Virtual Infrastructure Security: Securing the Virtual Environment'
Also available 'VMWare ESX Server in the Enterprise'
SearchVMware Pro|Blue Gears|Top Virtualization Security Links|Virtualization Security Round Table Podcast

Re: Advice needed: virtual firewall product

7. Nov 4, 2009 9:33 AM in response to: SBaldridge
Click to view Texiwill's profile Guru 10,236 posts since
Jan 13, 2004
Hello,

I, as everyone knows, am not a big fan of VLANs as a security tool. 802.1q which VMware utilizes does not mention security within the RFC. Granted the PVLAN feature of the vDS implements ACLs, not many other do.

vShield Zones is an INLINE solution sitting between two vSwitches and will do exactly as you require.

I just finished upgrading to vSphere and will be investigating all the VMsafe security tools. I currently use a Appliance based firewall that sits between two vSwitches just like vShield Zones will but would like to move to something a little faster. VMsafe fastpath will be lightyears faster just because there is less stack to traverse.

I think VMsafe is the proper way to go for the future (yes it works as a driver within the hypervisor) and will provide a level of security that your security folks only dreamed about. This is true per port security using real firewall style rules not the ACLs some switches provide.

If it was me, I would setup a lab and start investigating using VMsafe, working with your security as you do so. You may find what they want vShield Zones just will not provide or that per port firewalls are really overkill..... I would present the options to them and see what they want but only within a lab environment until you have everything worked out and tested.

This is what I will be doing.


Best regards,
Edward L. Haletky VMware Communities User Moderator, VMware vExpert 2009, Virtualization Practice Analyst
Now Available: 'VMware vSphere(TM) and Virtual Infrastructure Security: Securing the Virtual Environment'
Also available 'VMWare ESX Server in the Enterprise'
SearchVMware Pro|Blue Gears|Top Virtualization Security Links|Virtualization Security Round Table Podcast

Re: Advice needed: virtual firewall product

8. Nov 22, 2009 4:17 AM in response to: SBaldridge
Click to view Iwan Rahabok's profile Enthusiast 104 posts since
May 26, 2008

I know this is not answering the question directly, but hope it may help:

On the "Test Cluster", you may want to consider running ESX on top of ESX. So the ESX is a VM. It is good enough (as in performance is decent) if you are only running a few VM on top.

This allows you to test the functionality.

Cheers!

e1


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