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VMWF debugger possibly causing problems in Win 98 SE? posted: Jul 7, 2009 12:34 PM

Click to view HapK's profile Enthusiast
HapK
23 posts since
Jul 2, 2009
Hi,

http://communities.vmware.com/message/1303409#1303409

In the above referenced thread I have been asking why my Oxford English Dictionary 2nd ed version 2 can install and run on Parallels but not in VMWare Fusion. Apologies if you have read any of this before, but I have narrowed the question, so I am closing the other threads and focusing on the debugger question in this thread. It's my last hope.

FYI I am running VMWF on iMac 24" 3.06ghz (Leopard 10.5.7) with Nvidia GeForce 8800 GS video card. After some hiccups I have manged to get my USB devices recognized in Win 98 se in VMWF. All is working just great--much better than on Parallels! EXCEPT my legally purchased OED CD-ROM (which has the atrocious C-Dilla Safedisc 1 copy protection) fails authorization on VMWare Fusion but passes with no problems on Parallels. (This version of the OED works in Win 98 se and I do not want to buy another Windoze operating system anyway.)The C-Dilla Safedisc copy protection is made by Macrovision and is most commonly used on gaming software.

I have seen on the internet some mention that any presence of debugging software--whether active or not-- will activate the Safedisc copy protection and prevent authorization. (Apparently hackers use debugging software to get around copy protection??? I have no clue. ) Parallels does not have debugging software as far as I know. VMWare Fusion does. Is there any way to remove the debugging software from VMWF? Or does anyone have any experience with trying to get games with C-dilla Safedisc to run on VMWare Fusion?

Please if you know, help me out. The OED cost almost $400 (it's 20 print volumes on one disk). There's no logical reason why it should not work in VMWare Fusion, yet install in Parallels. (If you're asking why not just run it in Parallels? It's because Parallels runs Win 98 Se very badly (their virtual tools will not install)--the display is barely readable --not great for a dictionary!)

Thank you

Tags: debugger, debugging_software, win_98_se, oxford_english_dictionary_2nd_ed, oed, c-dilla, safedisc_1, copy_protection

Re: VMWF debugger possibly causing problems in Win 98 SE?

1. Jul 7, 2009 12:57 PM in response to: HapK
Click to view jmattson's profile Master
jmattson
1,225 posts since
Mar 29, 2006
The most likely explanation is that C-Dilla is checking for execution in a virtual machine and refusing authorization based on that. You should check your EULA for this software and see if you are in violation of the agreement if you install the software in a virtual machine.

There are many ways of checking for execution in a virtual machine. Under binary translation, software can detect the truncated segment limits that are used to protect the hypervisor from the guest OS. You can get around this by forcing Fusion to use hardware-assisted virtualization (as Parallels does) for this guest. Just add the following to your VM configuration file:
monitor.virtual_exec = "hardware"

You should remove this setting once your installation is complete. Fusion defaults to binary translation for older Windows guests both for performance reasons and to work around some guest OS bugs that cannot be worked around using hardware-assisted virtualization.

The copy protection software may also be looking for the existence of the VMware backdoor, which is not present in Parallels. You can get around this by restricting access to the backdoor with the following configuration option:
monitor_control.restrict_backdoor = "TRUE"

You should remove this setting once your installation is complete. VMware Tools will not be able to run in your guest when this option is enabled.

Re: VMWF debugger possibly causing problems in Win 98 SE?

2. Jul 7, 2009 1:36 PM in response to: jmattson
Click to view HapK's profile Enthusiast
HapK
23 posts since
Jul 2, 2009

About EULA: the publisher of the OED, Oxford University Press, just says they won't support using on a virtual machine and that it won't work, they don't say we are not allowed to run on a vm. However, I was able to run the OED on Virtual PC 4, 5, & 6. So it has worked and does work on Parallels, just not VMWF.

I will try your suggestion--it makes sense.

Fingers crossed.

Re: VMWF debugger possibly causing problems in Win 98 SE?

3. Jul 7, 2009 3:34 PM in response to: jmattson
Click to view HapK's profile Enthusiast
HapK
23 posts since
Jul 2, 2009
OK, I went to Home/Documents/Virtual Machines and looked for the Windows 98 se.vmx

Edited as you suggested. Uninstalled the OED and C-Dilla completely. Renstalled, crossed my fingers and IT WORKED!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I have been trying to make my OED work on virtual machine for about two weeks solid,

(It has always been a royal pain in every part of the anatomy to get it to function with each new OS but this was the worst by far.) Now I will buy VMWF. It's far cheaper than buying the brand new Mac native OED (which may then fail to work when I upgrade to Snow Leopard in September given the past track record with the OED.)

Re: VMWF debugger possibly causing problems in Win 98 SE?

4. Jul 7, 2009 2:57 PM in response to: HapK
Click to view RDPetruska's profile Guru
RDPetruska
15,877 posts since
Jan 11, 2005

Your OS is trying to be "helpful" when in fact all it is doing is "confusing" you - by making the .vmwarevm folder appear like a single file. Either drill into the .vmwarevm bundle to see the files, or do yourself a huge favor and just delete the .vmwarevm extension from the folder name, and it will appear like the folder that it in fact IS! <rant on> stupid Apple design!</rant off>

Re: VMWF debugger possibly causing problems in Win 98 SE?

5. Jul 7, 2009 4:08 PM in response to: jmattson
Click to view HapK's profile Enthusiast
HapK
23 posts since
Jul 2, 2009
One more question on this.

The stupid design of the OED requires that I have physically insert the data CD to authorize the program each time I restart windows! (Actually it requires that I have to leave it in the CD drive each time I want to look up a word, but they now allow us to put the DATA folder on our hard drive and redirect the OED.ini to look for it but only after the first authorization each restart.) Anyway if I cannot leave these 2 entries in place in the VMWF configurations file then I would have to add them to the VMWF configurations file each time I restart. (About a bad as the OED.)

Is there any way around having to remove these entries from the VMWF configurations file? Maybe someone has written a script for doing this on the fly? Or....?

Thanks again ...I really appreciate your help.

Re: VMWF debugger possibly causing problems in Win 98 SE?

6. Jul 7, 2009 4:36 PM in response to: HapK
Click to view jmattson's profile Master
jmattson
1,225 posts since
Mar 29, 2006
Did this solve your problem? If so, which of the config options did you need?

For Windows 98, the virtual_exec option is pretty safe to leave in the configuration file all of the time.

If you need to restrict the backdoor, you'd have to play suspend/resume games to be able to use VMware Tools.

Re: VMWF debugger possibly causing problems in Win 98 SE?

7. Jul 7, 2009 4:57 PM in response to: jmattson
Click to view HapK's profile Enthusiast
HapK
23 posts since
Jul 2, 2009
Yes! I thanked you in my earlier reply. But I repeat THANK YOU! You have allowed me to stop obsessing about getting the OED to work!

I needed both options. It won't work without both. Obviously the backdoor is important.

I hope I will be able to keep this working with both options installed.

Re: VMWF debugger possibly causing problems in Win 98 SE?

8. Jul 8, 2009 7:21 AM in response to: HapK
Click to view RDPetruska's profile Guru
RDPetruska
15,877 posts since
Jan 11, 2005

Just an information if you don't already know it. You can comment out lines in the vmx file by prefixing them with a pound sign (#). You don't have to actually remove the line. Of course, for any edits to be effective, the VM must be powered off - and as JMattson said, if you need to switch between the backdoor on and off, you will need to play the suspend/edit file/resume game. But you don't have to completely remove the line from the file, at least.

Re: VMWF debugger possibly causing problems in Win 98 SE?

9. Jul 8, 2009 8:52 AM in response to: HapK
Click to view Bob Zimmerman's profile Hot Shot
Bob Zimmerman
259 posts since
Dec 22, 2006
One potentially relevant question that I did not see asked: Have you tested the authorization without the backdoor line in the vmx file?

The application was evidently written specifically to check for VMware, but it is possible that that check is only done when you install it, and not at every authorization.

Re: VMWF debugger possibly causing problems in Win 98 SE?

10. Jul 8, 2009 9:15 AM in response to: RDPetruska
Click to view Bob Zimmerman's profile Hot Shot
Bob Zimmerman
259 posts since
Dec 22, 2006
This is hardly exclusive to Apple. Take a look at the docx file format. It's a zip with the actual data files in it. That's just the first example off the top of my head. I've seen plenty of files that are just gzip archives of the actual data, tars (or similar) of the actual data, and so forth. The reason for this is that it's useful. It makes it easier to work with files when they're not poorly-documented binary blobs. Rather than make a new file format, you just stuff a bunch of existing ones into a folder or archive of some sort. Users can still treat it just like they used to treat the binary blob formats; as a single file rather than a folder of separate ones. It complicates edge cases, but only marginally. Everyone wins.

In short, grow up.

Re: VMWF debugger possibly causing problems in Win 98 SE?

11. Jul 8, 2009 11:31 AM in response to: Bob Zimmerman
Click to view HapK's profile Enthusiast
HapK
23 posts since
Jul 2, 2009

Yes, I have tested the authorization without the backdoor line. That's why I said its presence was needed.

You think that the C-Dilla Safedisc 1 authorization software from the year 2000 is checking for VMWare specifically? But not looking for Parallels (on which it runs without authorization problems)? Why would that be?

The C-Dilla Safedisc has always demanded that the physical CD be loaded at each start up of the OED. Even if the OED Data is legally installed on a HDD and the OED.ini is redirected to find it, that only works AFTER the program has loaded and been authorized and each and every restart of the OED. I have been fighting this monster since 2000, so I am familiar with its moves.

I'm curious. Since this is the same protection software used on some games, do
gamers have trouble using VMWare Fusion? If so, how do they get around
the authorization problem? By the same method?

I'm just glad it's working in VMWare. On my iMac 24" display I can tell you Windows 98 and the OED look better than they ever have before.

But in the end I may have to break down and buy the new Native Mac version 4.0 of the OED just because of the constant pain of having always to reauthorize from the CD at each restart. Now if someone out there who plays games that have this same copy protection issue has been able to circumvent the "insert Cd to authorize" pain in the rear, please let me know how. Then I will pay for my trial version of VMware Fusion and keep using my old windows OED without having to spend $295 for the new full Mac version of the OED.

Thanks


Re: VMWF debugger possibly causing problems in Win 98 SE?

12. Jul 9, 2009 12:54 AM in response to: HapK
Click to view etung's profile Guru
etung
11,094 posts since
Oct 15, 2006
You think that the C-Dilla Safedisc 1 authorization software from the year 2000 is checking for VMWare specifically?

Yes, that's what I think. VMware pioneered x86 virtualization, and so a number of programs (unfairly, IMO) single us out. Quick Googling doesn't show if Parallels even had a product in 2000 - it's hard to blacklist something that doesn't exist yet.

Re: VMWF debugger possibly causing problems in Win 98 SE?

13. Jul 9, 2009 10:56 AM in response to: etung
Click to view HapK's profile Enthusiast
HapK
23 posts since
Jul 2, 2009

So, if Macrovision's C-Dilla Safedisc is specifically blocking VMWare, my question remains "Since this is the same protection software used on some games, do
gamers have trouble using VMWare Fusion? If so, how do they get around the authorization problem? By the same method?" I'm not talking about illegal game use but just about VMWare users getting past this Gawd awful C-Dilla Safedisc malware with purchased games that require the CD to be authorized each time at restart. I don't know the answer to this because I don't play games. I only know what I have read in other forums in researching why the OED would not authorize or run on VMWare.

But I did manage to run the OED on the old (pre-Microsoft ownership of VPC & pre Intel Mac ) Virtual PC 4, 5, & 6.

Re: VMWF debugger possibly causing problems in Win 98 SE?

14. Jul 9, 2009 11:42 AM in response to: HapK
Click to view wila's profile Virtuoso
wila
3,266 posts since
Jun 27, 2006
But in the end I may have to break down and buy the new Native Mac version 4.0 of the OED just because of the constant pain of having always to reauthorize from the CD at each restart.
You might be able to clone the disk to an image file on your local disk and then set your Virtual Machine to look at that CDrom file instead of the original disk.
I have no idea if there is a protection on the CDrom itself that would prevent this from working, but you can always try.
See for example here: http://www.thejackol.com/2006/03/11/create-isos-in-os-x/ for one way on how to create an ISO file image of your CD.


--
Wil
_____________________________________________________
VI-Toolkit & scripts wiki at http://www.vi-toolkit.com
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