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9 Replies Last post: Oct 31, 2009 10:22 AM by Texiwill  

Role rights. To Vm admin vs Windows admin posted: Jun 2, 2009 7:33 AM

Click to view Bastien_P's profile Hot Shot 96 posts since
Jul 20, 2006
Hi,

we have 7 esx hosts with numerous VM on them. Almost everything is windows. We are starting to secure the access to those server on a need to use basis. I was wondering how you guys do it? Do you use Vm role to limit access ? (lets say remove interaction rights, even use no access). It seems to be an easy option but then it's kinda hard for the vmadmin to work on these machine if he dont have interaction rights? Possible but seems hard to deploy a template or update vmtools for exemple? Since in our case the Vmadmin and the Windows admin will probably be two different people it might be difficult to go that way. Maybe give interaction but secure login by AD right? At least in this option, the vmadmin can deploy machine?

Nway i was wondering how you guys do it? Does the vmadmin have right to all Vm machines on your network? and if not, how do you do it?

Re: Role rights. To Vm admin vs Windows admin

1. Jun 2, 2009 7:40 AM in response to: Bastien_P
Click to view Troy Clavell's profile Guru 6,294 posts since
Oct 12, 2007
maybe this will help
http://www.vmware.com/pdf/vi3_vc_roles.pdf


We typically have a vCenter Administrators at the Hosts & Clusters level. From there we manage are roles and permissions through the Virtual Machines and Templates View by creating folders and grouping VM's.


hope this helps a bit.

Re: Role rights. To Vm admin vs Windows admin

3. Jun 2, 2009 7:45 AM in response to: Bastien_P
Click to view RParker's profile Champion 5,288 posts since
Dec 6, 2006
Templates are harder to administer. We give people VM User, to power on / power off their VM's. They are Windows admins. Maybe some companies have a need to allow more people access to deploy their own templates, but that is opening yourself up. I prefer to keep it limited, they request a VM, I give them what they ask for, and they can do whatever they want inside the VM.

I figure all they need (once the VM is deployed) is to power it on if it's off, or reset if it gets stuck. I experimented with VM Admin, but templates is tricky, because you have to give them top level access to the datacenter where their VM is, but not propagate. Then drill down to where the VM lives in a Resource pool or ESX host. Then give them rights to that machine / pool. And sometimes they still can't get proper authority to deploy templates, because they need root level to the SAN storage. I tried on different hosts and its a nighmare to manage.

I found it easier to just deploy whatever template they want (you can even schedule it) and if you design the templates properly they can build themselves you just initiate the sequence, and after 30 minutes, it adds itself to the network, reboots, updates itself.. all automated, then its ready.

But I see your delima, It's tough to know who to trust, but I say keep it confined to a very small number of people for deployments and VM Console access, you are just asking for trouble if you get someone that doesn't know what they are doing.. and there are MANY that say they understand, to find out they don't really understand at all. That's ok if you do it to your own VM, but I don't want to come in on a Sat at 4:00am to fix an issue because somebody 'thought' they had it.


http://s254920738.onlinehome.us/resources/VMW_Q109_LGO_vExpert_k.jpg

Re: Role rights. To Vm admin vs Windows admin

4. Jun 2, 2009 7:54 AM in response to: Bastien_P
Click to view Troy Clavell's profile Guru 6,294 posts since
Oct 12, 2007
Bastien_P wrote: Thanks. Yeah the pdf seems good i will go trought that. But if I understand correctly your Vcenter administrators that create folders do have right on all the hosts and Vms ?

Yes, that is correct. We have a very small group (3) of individuals that are a member of the Administrators group at the Hosts&Clusters level. We have some custom roles we create, but typically we don't like to have anyone except for a our VI Team poking around in our vCenter Instances. Server Admins need to get used to managing a VM the same way the would a physical server.

Re: Role rights. To Vm admin vs Windows admin

5. Jun 2, 2009 2:53 PM in response to: Troy Clavell
Click to view Texiwill's profile Guru 10,236 posts since
Jan 13, 2004
Hello,

THe best security is to actually not allow anyone but virtualization administrators have access to the vCenter Server, or VIC to SC. Basically only VI Admins should have access to the VIC.

All other managemernt can take place using ISO images, and RDP to the console if necessary. THere is no real need for a server admin to get to the server(guest) console through the VIC when they can do this quite easily using RDP.

VIC access actually makes things harder to manage I find unless you limit its scope of use.


Best regards, Edward L. Haletky VMware Communities User Moderator, VMware vExpert 2009
Now Available on Rough-Cuts: 'VMware vSphere(TM) and Virtual Infrastructure Security: Securing ESX and the Virtual Environment'
Also available 'VMWare ESX Server in the Enterprise'
SearchVMware Pro|Blue Gears|Top Virtualization Security Links|Virtualization Security Round Table Podcast

Re: Role rights. To Vm admin vs Windows admin

7. Jun 3, 2009 1:56 PM in response to: Bastien_P
Click to view Texiwill's profile Guru 10,236 posts since
Jan 13, 2004
Hello,

Moved to Security Forum.

VI Admins can see everything. They are the ones who can Move machines, powerdown/powerup VMs, etc. They can access everything pretty much at the lowest levels of ESX. However, this also does not mean they need to 'access' the insides of the VM using AD.

VI Admins are pretty much your most trusted administrators, etc. While you may have a VI Admin role in VC, that is not the same as a Domain Admin. VI Admins are really concerned with ESX and VMs, not what is really running within the guest. If there is a guest issue the Server Admin will work with the VI Admin to see if VI is the cause.

If you can at all keep server admin (guest OS Admin) separate from VI Admins (ESX access) then I would.


Best regards, Edward L. Haletky VMware Communities User Moderator, VMware vExpert 2009
Now Available on Rough-Cuts: 'VMware vSphere(TM) and Virtual Infrastructure Security: Securing ESX and the Virtual Environment'
Also available 'VMWare ESX Server in the Enterprise'
SearchVMware Pro|Blue Gears|Top Virtualization Security Links|Virtualization Security Round Table Podcast

Re: Role rights. To Vm admin vs Windows admin

8. Oct 30, 2009 12:55 PM in response to: Texiwill
Click to view Gene H's profile Enthusiast 102 posts since
May 4, 2006

Texiwill - I definately see your point and I am trying to isolate the VirtualCenter and ESX Console connections to a separate management subnet. However, I have seen where RDP "hangs" or does not correctly work after a Windows server is rebooted. A windows server administrator must then power the vm off and back on using the VIC. Is there a way to provide the ability to "power off / on" the vm guest without using the VIC and hence the console subnet?

Gene

Re: Role rights. To Vm admin vs Windows admin

9. Oct 31, 2009 10:22 AM in response to: Gene H
Click to view Texiwill's profile Guru 10,236 posts since
Jan 13, 2004
Hello,

However, I have seen where RDP "hangs" or does not correctly work after a Windows server is rebooted. A windows server administrator must then power the vm off and back on using the VIC. Is there a way to provide the ability to "power off / on" the vm guest without using the VIC and hence the console subnet?

If RDP hangs or there is a server reboot issue you may actually have a different problem that a reboot may not actually fix. This is a case of the Server Admin must work with the Virtualization Admin to either fix the problem or determine the root cause of the problem.

If you were to expose this capability to non VI-Admins then I would do it through some other mechanism besides vCenter/VIC/vSphere Client/Power Shell/etc. Perhaps just through a process where the Server Admin contacts the VI Admin, etc. That would be the best suggestion as something is definitely wrong with the VM.

Otherwise you could create a custom tool that would contact a proxy which would then go through the firewall to the VI Admin network and then execute a VI SDK script to perform the reboot. Note you do not want to expose the VI SDK through the VI Admin network firewall but something else unrelated.... I have been thinking about the best way to do this recently as well. There exist at least one tool that does do this now. You use one set of credentials to access the proxy and it uses another to do the reboot, etc.... Hyper9 Virtualization Mobile Manager 1.0... Which is available from http://www.hyper9.com/downloads.aspx .... It is not quite what you want (nothing exists yet), but close to what you need and has the necessary security to do the work.


Best regards,
Edward L. Haletky VMware Communities User Moderator, VMware vExpert 2009, Virtualization Practice Analyst
Now Available: 'VMware vSphere(TM) and Virtual Infrastructure Security: Securing the Virtual Environment'
Also available 'VMWare ESX Server in the Enterprise'
SearchVMware Pro|Blue Gears|Top Virtualization Security Links|Virtualization Security Round Table Podcast

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