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ESX4 + Nehalem Host + vMMU = Broken TPS ! posted: May 24, 2009 4:34 AM

Click to view mcwill's profile Expert 396 posts since
Mar 13, 2006
Since upgrading our 2 host lab environment from 3.5 to 4.0 we are seeing poor Transparent Page Sharing performance on our new Nehalem based HP ML350 G6 host.

Host A : ML350 G6 - 1 x Intel E5504, 18GB RAM
Host B : Whitebox - 2 x Intel 5130, 8GB RAM

Under ESX 3.5 TPS worked correctly on both hosts, but on ESX 4.0 only the older Intel 5130 based host appears to be able to scavenge inactive memory from the VMs.

To test this out I created a new VM from an existing Win2k3 system disk. (Just to ensure it wasn't an old option in the .vmx file that was causing the issue.) The VM was configured as hardware type 7 and was installed with the latest tools from the 4.0 release.

During the test the VM was idle and reporting only 156MB of the 768MB as in use. The VM was vmotioned between the two hosts and as can be seen from the attached performance graph there is a very big difference in active memory usage.

I've also come across an article by Duncan Epping at yellow-bricks.com that may point the cause as being vMMU...
MMU article

If vMMU is turned off in the VM settings and the VM restarted then TPS operates as expected on both hosts. (See second image)

So if it comes down to chosing between the two, would you choose TPU over vMMU or vice versa?
Attachments:

Re: ESX4 + Nehalem Host + vMMU = Broken TPS !

1. May 24, 2009 4:40 AM in response to: mcwill
Click to view depping's profile Champion VMware Employees User Moderators 3,153 posts since
Jan 17, 2005
Well it's not broken. When memory is scarce it apparently will start breaking up the Large Pages in Small Pages which will be TPS'ed after a while. It's not only for Nehalem btw, AMD RVI has the same side effect. I've already addressed this internally and the developers are looking into it.


Duncan
VMware Communities User Moderator | VCP | VCDX


Blogging: http://www.yellow-bricks.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/depping

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Re: ESX4 + Nehalem Host + vMMU = Broken TPS !

3. May 24, 2009 12:49 PM in response to: mcwill
Click to view depping's profile Champion VMware Employees User Moderators 3,153 posts since
Jan 17, 2005
I know, as far as I know it's something that's being investigated.... It seems like vCenter reports this info incorrectly. I will contact the developers again and would like to ask you to call support! Have them escalate this to development.

Duncan
VMware Communities User Moderator | VCP | VCDX


Blogging: http://www.yellow-bricks.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/depping

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Re: ESX4 + Nehalem Host + vMMU = Broken TPS !

5. May 24, 2009 1:44 PM in response to: mcwill
Click to view joergriether's profile Hot Shot 197 posts since
Sep 17, 2006
I just came up the exactly same behaviour on a dell r710 equipped with two xeon 5520 quadcore and 36Gig Mem. I created some new W2003 machines, all showing 95-98% Guest Mem Usage in vSphere Client, but inside guest shows it´s pretty normal. AND (and now it becomes bad) when comparing the subjective speed inside the guest it is much slower than the same machine with my previous esx 3.5u4.

This is not good.

regards,
Joerg

Re: ESX4 + Nehalem Host + vMMU = Broken TPS !

6. May 24, 2009 2:04 PM in response to: mcwill
Click to view depping's profile Champion VMware Employees User Moderators 3,153 posts since
Jan 17, 2005
Keep me posted!

Duncan
VMware Communities User Moderator | VCP | VCDX


Blogging: http://www.yellow-bricks.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/depping

If you find this information useful, please award points for "correct" or "helpful".

Re: ESX4 + Nehalem Host + vMMU = Broken TPS !

7. May 24, 2009 7:42 PM in response to: mcwill
Click to view kichaonline's profile Enthusiast VMware Employees 22 posts since
Feb 22, 2005
Transparent page sharing works only for small pages (we are investigating efficient way to implement it for Large pages). On EPT/NPT capable systems using large pages offers better MMU performance and so ESX takes advantage of large pages transparently. It is possible that you are not getting the same level of TPS benefits on the EPT/NPT systems for this reason.

Re: ESX4 + Nehalem Host + vMMU = Broken TPS !

8. May 24, 2009 7:48 PM in response to: mcwill
Click to view kichaonline's profile Enthusiast VMware Employees 22 posts since
Feb 22, 2005
If you want you can also try disabling the use of large pages
goto Advanced Settings dialog box, choose Mem.
set Mem.AllocGuestLargePage to 0

This should improve TPS.

Re: ESX4 + Nehalem Host + vMMU = Broken TPS !

9. May 25, 2009 12:51 AM in response to: kichaonline
Click to view joergriether's profile Hot Shot 197 posts since
Sep 17, 2006

Hmmm, i must hardly refute. "The same level of benefits" ist highly understated. Let me tell you this one: Yesterday I tried to start the vmware tools installer on a freshly installed w2003 with 1 gig and 1 cpu out of the box. I did it contemporaneous on an esx 3.5 (dell r710) and on an esx 4 (dell r710), EXACTLY the same machine. Now, the ESX 3.5 machine did it in 23 seconds, the ESX 4 machine did it in 320 seconds. Does that sound good? I repeat: This is NOT good. This has to be fixed asap.
best,
Joerg

Re: ESX4 + Nehalem Host + vMMU = Broken TPS !

12. May 25, 2009 2:21 AM in response to: kichaonline
Click to view ufo8mydog's profile Enthusiast 76 posts since
Jul 27, 2008
Hi there

Perhaps I am a bit slow, but I do not understand the full extent of the problem.

1) Are all VM's (32, 64, Windows, Linux) affected by this vMMU bug on Nehalem hardware?
2) Currently it seems that all VMs have vMMU set to "Automatic".

  • When I move to our Nehalem infrastructure should I be setting vMMU to "forbid" and then rebooting?
  • Or, is the better solution to set Mem.AllocGuestLargePage to 0 (and rebooting) as kichaonline suggested?

Re: ESX4 + Nehalem Host + vMMU = Broken TPS !

14. May 25, 2009 6:27 AM in response to: mcwill
Click to view neyz's profile Novice 17 posts since
Apr 22, 2009
Hello everyone,

I have succesfully managed to upgrade our ltitle farm to vSphere 4. The problem is that since then, all my guest have started to get little red exclamation points. Memory usage goes up to 2GB and just stays there no matter what even if in the guest the reported usage is 50% I am used to the guest memory usage going to the max but then it usually went dow, now it just seems blocked.

  • I have upgraded vmware tools on the guests
  • I have upgraded the vmware virtual hardware
  • I have forced the CPU/MMU Virtualization to use Intel VT

Guest is Win2K8 with 2GB of ram and 2vCPU.

I am not sure if this is the same issue as you guys have but it seems kinda weird to me since i didn't have this behavior before the upgrade.

Cheers !
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