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1 2 Previous Next 20 Replies Last post: Apr 7, 2008 1:04 PM by Scott@68  

Newbie 3i Console/Management Question posted: Mar 27, 2008 2:56 PM

Click to view Kevin Gao's profile Hot Shot 206 posts since
Mar 27, 2008

Hi everyone,

Please excuse me but I'm a VMWare newbie. Our not-for-profit foundation has been using VMWare Server 1 and also BETA 2 since last year. We're looking to move toward Infrastructure or 3i this year.

Could someone please clarify what we'll need to properly manage 3i (Remote GUI console and etc)? I had initially thought that we'll need the following:

  • Virtual Center Foundation (we're on a budget so everything will be Foundation)

  • Virtual Infrastructure Foundation

  • ESX Server 3i

After chatting with an online VMWare pre-sales person; I learned that we won't need VC Foundation. Unfortunately I'm still a little hazy on this as the rep informed me that 3i can not have VC Console functionality. Could someone please explain? Any insight would be greatly appreciated as I'm trying to make an informed decision to management. Being NFP I'd like to make sure the budget is as efficient as possible.

Thanks a lot everyone!

Re: Newbie 3i Console/Management Question

1. Mar 27, 2008 3:11 PM in response to: Kevin Gao
Click to view jgilmartin's profile Enthusiast 15 posts since
Jul 6, 2006

Kevin - It depends somewhat on the number of servers you are virtualizing and the management functionality you want. Here are the basics:

An ESX3i license will give you single server partitioning. You will manage that server on a 1:1 basis with the VI Client, a windows GUI. This will allow you to create and view your virtual machines including accessing their consoles remotely. If you have more than one host, you will only be able to connect to one at a time.

A VI Foundation license plus VC Foundation will allow you manage multiple ESX3i servers from a single interface. You will see all the physical servers and virtual machines associated with those hosts. You will also be able to: create templates and clone VMs which can be a great time saver in deploying new machines, automatically apply patches to Windows VMs and the ESXi hosts with Update Manager, and use Consolidated Backup with your 3rd party backup software to backup VMs or VM data (this last assumes shared storage). VC Foundation manages up to 3 ESXi hosts.

By contrast, a VI Enterprise license plus VC Foundation plus shared storage (NAS, iSCSI, FC) gives you access to live migration (VMotion + Storage VMotion), high availability, and resource management (DRS).


Re: Newbie 3i Console/Management Question

3. Mar 27, 2008 3:16 PM in response to: Kevin Gao
Click to view fejf's profile Hot Shot 219 posts since
May 29, 2007

Depends on what you want. If you don't want a central mangement you can stick with ESX3 or ESX3i only without a Virtual Center. But you have to connect to each esx server seperatly if you want to make changes. With virtual center you have a central point of management where all ESX servers are listed. The interface is mainly the same but provides more features if you use the Virtual Center: you connect with the VI-Client to the ESX servers or VC server.

Virtual Infrastructure is just a generic term for the products associated with ESX3 / 3i and Virtual Center.

fejf

Re: Newbie 3i Console/Management Question

5. Mar 27, 2008 4:50 PM in response to: Kevin Gao
Click to view jgilmartin's profile Enthusiast 15 posts since
Jul 6, 2006

Kevin - You can do a free evaluation of VC for 60 days. If you go with ESXi, I still suggest giving the eval a try. You might find benefit from the provisioning, templates, cloning, etc.

Re: Newbie 3i Console/Management Question

6. Mar 27, 2008 6:59 PM in response to: Kevin Gao
Click to view Dave.Mishchenko's profile Guru 8,974 posts since
Nov 15, 2005
Hi Kevin, a few other things to consider
1) 3i (installable or embedded) is only supported on a very limited hardware set right now. See this document for servers that are supported - http://www.vmware.com/pdf/vi35_systems_guide.pdf. What model of servers do you plan to you?
2) As you mention in your initial post, 3i has no service console so it is harder to troubleshoot.
3) What are you going to be using for VM backup? Two popular packages as examples (esXpress and vRangerPro) do not support 3i yet.
4) What hardware specs do you have planned to use? It may be the case that you could go with 2 host and find some extra fund for the VC Foundation edition. Three 3i hosts will be $1500 plus support and VC Foundation for 3 hosts is $3K plus support so the difference may be worth the additional feature set that you would gain. That said, I started using ESX without VC and you can get away without using VC. You can even use shared storage without VC as well.

Re: Newbie 3i Console/Management Question

8. Mar 28, 2008 9:55 AM in response to: Kevin Gao
Click to view Dave.Mishchenko's profile Guru 8,974 posts since
Nov 15, 2005
Here's the support matrix for HP servers - http://h71028.www7.hp.com/enterprise/cache/505363-0-0-0-121.html. Note that not all DL380/385 models are supported. That may be a case that they just haven't been supported but for older models it could be that they won't work 100% either. ESX supports a very limited hardware set so it's best to stick with something that is explicitly stated as supported.

You will be able to use the VI client for all your day to day management. If you run into any snags, ESX 3.5 is easier to troubleshoot due to the serivce console.

What sort of hardware specs will your hosts have and how many VMs do you plan to run?

Re: Newbie 3i Console/Management Question

10. Mar 28, 2008 10:06 AM in response to: Kevin Gao
Click to view fejf's profile Hot Shot 219 posts since
May 29, 2007

2) You can use the VI Client to manage the ESX3i-Server but you don't have the possibility to log into the Service Console (the Linux Management part of ESX3). E.g. if the management demon (hostd) is stuck in some way there is the possibility to log into the linux service console and restart the service - you can't do that with esx3i. Another example is backup software: if you use agents inside the virtual machines there is no problem but you have to pay for a agent in each virtual machine. With ESX3 there is the possibility to install a backup agent (see backup software compatibility list) in the service console which means that you pay for one backup agents to backup multiple machines.

4) "cheap storage": by the way: you can use a standard pc with linux and nfs as storage - it's not the best way to go but it's cheap ;)

Re: Newbie 3i Console/Management Question

11. Mar 28, 2008 10:12 AM in response to: fejf
Click to view Charu's profile Enthusiast 18 posts since
Jun 15, 2006

One correction: you CAN restart management agents in ESXi (ESX Server 3i). From the DCUI (console interface), you can select the option "restart management agents" and this will restart the various management agents on the system, such as hostd, vpxa, etc,


Re: Newbie 3i Console/Management Question

12. Mar 30, 2008 10:06 PM in response to: Kevin Gao
Click to view amirs's profile Enthusiast 15 posts since
Nov 5, 2007

Hi Kevin,

I am the product manager for ESXi and would like to speak with you personally if possible. Could you follow up by sending me an email at amirs@vmware.com and letting me know where I could reach you?

Thanks.

Re: Newbie 3i Console/Management Question

13. Apr 7, 2008 5:42 AM in response to: amirs
Click to view Scott@68's profile Novice 10 posts since
Apr 7, 2008
I am looking for some clarification on ESX Vi foundation and ESX 3i. Unless I am missing it there is conflicting information and even my sales reps and two people I have talked to at VMWare have given me different information.

I am trying to decide between the ESX Vi foundation Acceleration Kits (basically ESX Foundation for 3 dual processors servers + Virtual Center for three servers) or using ESX 3i plus the full Virtual Center. I was told by one person in sales that I could stack the ESX Foundation licenses - if I bought one now and one three months from now my Virtual Center would be expanded to 6 servers? Is that correct?

I would prefer to go with the ESX 3i type server but again have two conflicting pieces of information. The VMware Key Features Summary basically says you can use Virtual Center but there is very little that VMWare Consolidated Backup will do, another article by Charu Chaubal - the VMware INFORMATION GUIDE seems to indicate that Virtual Center is fully functional and there is complete support for VCB.

Basically, ESX 3i meets all my needs but I would like the ability to use Virtual Center and full blown Consolidated Backup is a must.

Can anybody please clarify ..

Thank you,

Scott

Re: Newbie 3i Console/Management Question

14. Apr 7, 2008 8:33 AM in response to: Scott@68
Click to view jgilmartin's profile Enthusiast 15 posts since
Jul 6, 2006

Hi Scott,

VMware ESXi (aka ESX 3i) is available for sale on its own as a standalone license. Purchased this way, it does NOT include a VirtualCenter agent so is not manageable by VC

VMware ESXi is also available inside the VI Foundation bundle, per your question. That bundle includes the VirtualCenter Agent, UpdateManager, and Consolidated Backup.

The Foundation Acceleration kit offers 3 VI Foundation licenses plus one VirtualCenter Foundation license (i.e. the VC Foundation license is essentially free). VirtualCenter Foundation is fully functional but can manage just 3 nodes. You cannot stack VC Foundation licenses. If you want to manage >3 nodes, you will need a VirtualCenter Server license. (There is an upgrade available.)

Does that answer your questions?

-John


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