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1 "correct" answer available (10 pts) 2 "helpful" answers available (6 pts)
1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 14 Previous Next 201 Replies Last post: Dec 18, 2007 5:04 PM by Serthos   Go to original post

Re: Web UI is the future?

45. Nov 15, 2007 8:42 AM in response to: bkolin
Click to view aerobott's profile Novice 13 posts since
Jan 25, 2004

This isn't going to fly. Unlike others that may have posted otherwise, many users I have spoken to that have tried the beta (all these were unsolicited angry discussions by the way by users that know I like VMWare - and are threatening to look elsewhere for virtualization products) do use and want continued direct console access, not RDP client access. I don't have to repeat the comments about the fact that Web interfaces for complex tasks are completely unsuitable. Don't go crazy on the Web UI thing. Novell did the same thing with their NetWare server and it may have acctually accelerated their downfall instead of stemming it. Their Web UI is several iterations ahead of yours and it's still nowhere near the usability and reliability that their older ndsmanager and nwadmin apps used to be. And of course Novell dropped the ball by not having a UI directly on the server.

Microsoft is watching and will eat you alive on this. I'd suggest you drop the console-less version of the server now, and bring back the consoled version yesterday; and with EMC's stock price going south, VMWare dragging it down further is one more headache they don't need.

Re: Web UI is the future?

47. Nov 15, 2007 10:23 PM in response to: GnatGoSplat
Click to view eot's profile Novice 28 posts since
Jul 26, 2006
Very nice. Thank you for explaining how to actually log in with the VI client. I thought it was like VMware Server 1 where you used port 902, not port 8333 (or 443, whatever you configured it to). You've made my night! I've now got the tomcat server shut down, and I can use the VI client through my port translating firewall...Very happy me now. Also, some of the performance features are pretty interesting...It's not quite as simple for layout, but there are some things in it that I can and will make use of.

Thank you GnatGoSplat! Want me to FedEx ya a case of Canadian Beer? We've got some great microbrews on the West Coast ;)

Regards,

Tren

Re: Web UI is the future?

48. Nov 16, 2007 12:19 AM in response to: eot
Click to view forbes's profile Enthusiast 60 posts since
Apr 30, 2006
Hi,

I have written up some basic install instructions for Ubuntu Guttsy on my site, if it is of use to anyone new to this discussion:


www.vmreference.com

Forbes Guthrie
http://www.vmreference.com

Re: Web UI is the future?

49. Nov 16, 2007 4:20 AM in response to: forbes
Click to view devzero's profile Master 2,749 posts since
Dec 27, 2004

i don`t understand why there is such hype with webui`s nowadays. i have seen so many (many!) crappy webuis`s and it`s absolutely absurd what`s going on with this.

everything must have a webui - webui for this, webui for that, webui for my fridge, webui for my toaster - but what advantage has a web-ui when it`s slow, and you need a native plugin for your webbrowser to be able to use it - and having issues after the next browser update?

save that time and work trying to turn a good native application into a webui. put the webui to trash and concentrate on development of native clients instead. webui`s are always worse than a native application.

harsh words - but my opinion.


Re: Web UI is the future?

50. Nov 16, 2007 4:22 AM in response to: GnatGoSplat
Click to view Peter_vm's profile Guru 9,058 posts since
Feb 1, 2006
What is the proper procedure to get webAccess (tomcat Web UI) service turned off permanently so it does not restart on the next host boot?
For both: Windows and Linux hosts.

Re: Web UI is the future?

51. Nov 16, 2007 4:33 AM in response to: Peter_vm
Click to view devzero's profile Master 2,749 posts since
Dec 27, 2004
don` t know for windows, but on linux you may try

service_vmware_mgmt() {
# See how we were called.
case "$1" in
start)
if ; then
echo 'Starting VMware management services:'
vmware_start_hostd
#vmware_start_webAccess

Re: Web UI is the future?

52. Nov 16, 2007 4:49 AM in response to: Peter_vm
Click to view DarrenBaker's profile Lurker 1 posts since
Nov 14, 2007
In Windows you need to stop and disable the "VMware Virtual Infrastructure Web Access" service.

Re: Web UI is the future?

53. Nov 16, 2007 1:25 PM in response to: bkolin
Click to view rrenomeron's profile Lurker 1 posts since
Nov 16, 2007

I haven't tried the beta (not enough time or hardware to test it properly), but I'm not a fan of the web interface being the only interface. My reasons, in no particular order:

  1. Asking Linux users to download the "official" mozilla.org build of Firefox instead of using the distro-provided package is a non-starter. I hope that's fixed before 2.0 final is released, but as I recall using C++ in Firefox extensions on Linux involves ABI black magic, I am not hopeful.
  2. Firefox moves quickly, with major releases that break extensions yearly. Are you willing to keep up?
  3. Using a non-browser client gives you more real estate for the console view. Even if you switch the browser to full-screen mode.
  4. When the browser crashes, the VMware console crashes. It's easy to recover from, but it's an annoyance.
  5. A browser window that I'd use for a VM console would have different settings (e.g. maximized, hide all the status/navigation/bookmark bars, etc.) than one I would for ordinary browsing. As Firefox currently works, it's nontrivial to keep different sets of settings for different windows. When Mozilla's Prism is in a more stable state I think this (and #4) might be less of an issue.
  6. As to the "connecting via RDP/NX is a better solution anyway" comment: I often run a VPN client in a virtual machine, and all network traffic to and from the virtual machine is routed to the VPN. In that scenario, I cannot connect to the VM via RDP or NX or some other kind of remote access. I need the console, and it needs to be responsive, and I need a lot of screen real estate.
  7. With the web client, as I understand it, I still have to download a binary blob of some kind. From my point of view, that negates one of the advantages (and in this use case, perhaps the only) advantage of a thin client.

Re: Web UI is the future?

54. Nov 16, 2007 1:58 PM in response to: aerobott
Click to view digihorse's profile Novice 10 posts since
Sep 19, 2005
It seems from the replys by VMWare associates... that they will not listen to the users. The answers given are not acceptable. The product is not usuable as it is in this beta. Period. The WebUI is in no way acceptable or usable. There is no interface for management on Linux. Many of us have NO windows systems available to install your "handy" VI client... as all windows "systems" are run in virtuals. Its a loop from which the current development/product will not escape. Whomeever conceived of the 2.x product in this way... was very short sighted to put it politely. Or paid by MS to sabotage the product. I won't even waste any more time on this beta. It doesn't work. That's my final response.

Re: Web UI is the future?

55. Nov 16, 2007 2:50 PM in response to: digihorse
Click to view bkolin's profile Hot Shot 106 posts since
Feb 19, 2006
This is a beta, we are collecting data, primarily use-case-based. I assume from your post that you were unable to accomplish certain virtual machine configuration tasks. It would be valuable to us if you could elaborate so we can use your feedback to make the product better. Console interaction is one area where there has been a good response, could you outline some of your other use cases? Has performance been a big issue or are there features you expected to see but did not?

Re: Web UI is the future?

56. Nov 16, 2007 3:07 PM in response to: bkolin
Click to view digihorse's profile Novice 10 posts since
Sep 19, 2005

Its very simple. The beta just plain does not work for me... or my clients. It is unusable. And I do mean totally UNUSABLE. There is no console or administrative interface to even being to add existing VMs to it. The work arounds and hacks for the WebUI are not acceptable. My systems all run OpenSuSE, currently at 10.2, including the desktop I am using to write this message. Tomcat is a monster of bad memory usage, and is not acceptable to run on a hosting server in order to provide access to even create the VMs. This was just a bad idea. The problems with the initial login... and the scripts checking for xinetd... that's just bad bug checking before this beta was released. Sorry... this is a piece of basic functionality, not fine tuning for a release.. Someone dropped that ball as well.

Using Java as the language to create a "new" client to manage the systems was not a bad idea. That makes one code base for all OSes. I believe that to be a wise idea. But then tying that to a Web Only interface? No. Especially one that requires Tomcat. This is the prime example of Java use gone very wrong.

I wish I could offer you more information. As I said... it is unusable in its current state... and I am unwilling to spend any more of my time on it when there are so many failure points. I see no resolution to my issues at this time without a change in programming. We'll see what happens with future releases. If the current path remains... then I'm afraid that we will be staying with older versions and/or finding other solutions.

Re: Web UI is the future?

57. Nov 16, 2007 6:49 PM in response to: rrenomeron
Click to view jmmarton's profile Hot Shot 155 posts since
Dec 5, 2005
rrenomeron wrote:
  1. Asking Linux users to download the "official" mozilla.org build of Firefox instead of using the distro-provided package is a non-starter.

Did I miss a post somewhere or an item in the release notes about this? I haven't heard about this. I'm using the Novell/SUSE version of FF on my SLED 10 SP1 laptop and I use third-party extensions with it every day. Granted the VMware one isn't working, but then again it's not working on just about any Linux distro. I didn't think that had anything to do with the flavor of FF. If anything it sounds like a simple environment variable may need to be set to get this going (I can't test this until Monday).

http://communities.vmware.com/message/797465#797465

Joe

Re: Web UI is the future?

58. Nov 16, 2007 6:55 PM in response to: jmmarton
Click to view rrdharan's profile Expert 462 posts since
Dec 16, 2004
jmmarton wrote:
rrenomeron wrote:
  1. Asking Linux users to download the "official" mozilla.org build of Firefox instead of using the distro-provided package is a non-starter.

Did I miss a post somewhere or an item in the release notes about this? I haven't heard about this. I'm using the Novell/SUSE version of FF on my SLED 10 SP1 laptop and I use third-party extensions with it every day.


Yeah, if it says that in the release notes, please ignore it. I don't think that should be stated and I will get it removed in future versions of the release notes if it's there right now.

We realize that running anything other than your distro package is an overly onerous requirement. We might ask you to do that if you're willing to help us debug a problem, but that would only be to help us narrow down something that doesn't work.

Re: Web UI is the future?

59. Nov 16, 2007 7:01 PM in response to: rrdharan
Click to view rrdharan's profile Expert 462 posts since
Dec 16, 2004
I see. You're referring to this text in the manual:

"NOTE You might not be able to use the version of Firefox that comes with your
Linux distribution. Some distributions package Firefox incorrectly, and the
resulting package will not work with VI Web Access."

I don't think this refers to any distribution that will be on Server 2.0's "official" supported hosts list. Obviously there are still many problems with browsers from hosts that are on the supported lists, but leaving those issues aside, I think this is just more of a guideline to say that if you e.g. run some crazy QT-based Firefox build or something like that, and it doesn't work, you could try an "official" build from mozilla.org.

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