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12 Replies Last post: Jun 23, 2009 6:20 AM by kimchong

ESX iSCSI with Microsoft Storage Server? And planning questions...

Nov 2, 2007 12:16 PM

mikes1p 13 posts since
Aug 1, 2007

Has anyone tried using ESX via iSCSI to MS Storage Server? I am crazy to even be considering it?

I don't expect it would perform like a dedicated iSCSI SAN system but for the price if fits my budget. I am considering using it to move 5 or so less critical W2003 servers into VM's on ESX Std at our HQ. If I need to go for a better storage system I need to make case for it to get more money out of the CFO.

I have about $40,000 to buy a 1TB storage system for our HQ, a smaller 500Gb storage box for DR in our second location, two ESX servers (one for HQ and one for DR), and any software needed to replicate. The DR plan is to replicate data files and images of all our servers but only run the critical systems in VM's at our second site. Suggestions? I have solutions from from Dell and HP

Thanks
Mike S

Tags: iscsi, storage_server

Reply Re: ESX iSCSI with Microsoft Storage Server? And planning questions... Nov 2, 2007 12:40 PM

Texiwill 9,498 posts since
Jan 13, 2004 Moderator

Hello,

Another option is to buy a system with lots of NIC and Disk and use the FreeNAS solution, it supports iSCSI and NFS. While it is running FreeBSD, it is a very good and inexpensive solution.

Best regards
Edward L. Haletky, author of the forthcoming 'VMWare ESX Server in the Enterprise: Planning and Securing Virtualization Servers', publishing January 2008, (c) 2008 Pearson Education. Available on Rough Cuts at http://safari.informit.com/9780132302074

Reply Re: ESX iSCSI with Microsoft Storage Server? And planning questions... Nov 2, 2007 1:02 PM

in response to: Texiwill

mikes1p 13 posts since
Aug 1, 2007

Thanks for the reply

I've done some reading on FreeNAS and OpenFiler, definately interesting and I am seriously considering them. I used OpenFiler at a previous job too. I didn't want my first post on this thread to be too long so Ieft out a lot of details. A consideration of mine: this is a Microsoft shop and am in the only one in IT so I want to minimize infrastructure that only I can understand. Open source is getting better all the time but getting third party support is a huge here (in case I get hit by a train), just easier sticking MS.

Also I should get something that's on the VMWare HCL, is there any whitebox/opensource solutions?

Reply Re: ESX iSCSI with Microsoft Storage Server? And planning questions... Nov 2, 2007 1:16 PM

in response to: mikes1p

Texiwill 9,498 posts since
Jan 13, 2004 Moderator

Hello,

There is a rumor that OpenFiler will be there soon, but as for a Microsoft shop, I leave that to others to comment upon. I have never used that particular option. But I do understand your situation.

Best regards,
Edward L. Haletky, author of the forthcoming 'VMWare ESX Server in the Enterprise: Planning and Securing Virtualization Servers', publishing January 2008, (c) 2008 Pearson Education. Available on Rough Cuts at http://safari.informit.com/9780132302074

Reply Re: ESX iSCSI with Microsoft Storage Server? And planning questions... Nov 2, 2007 2:57 PM

doubleH 523 posts since
Dec 23, 2006

i haven't used storage server, but i am currently playing around with Rocket Divisions Star Wind iSCSI target. it installs on top of Windows Server so it sounds like something you may want to check out...

http://www.rocketdivision.com/download_starwind.html

Reply Re: ESX iSCSI with Microsoft Storage Server? And planning questions... Nov 3, 2007 3:25 AM

dennes 61 posts since
Oct 31, 2006

You can also consider DataCore SanMelody. It's installed on top of the Windows (Storage) server. and (while pricey when you add up all the things you need) it has all the features and capabilities of a real SAN (snapshots/replication).

Dennes

Reply Re: ESX iSCSI with Microsoft Storage Server? And planning questions... Apr 17, 2008 7:34 PM

estradar 6 posts since
Jan 4, 2007

We have used Openfiler in a production environment for 487 days and counting. We are currently using Windows Unified Data Storage Server on our production environment also.

Cisco 3560 anchors the iscsi gigabit storage network and two dell 5448s provide the replication backbone.

Openfiler specs: Dell 6650 4 xeons 8gbs ram coupled to a Dell powervault with 6 TBs of scsi storage. 8 w2k3 vms are running on it AD, AV server, two sql servers, 1 exchange 2003 supporting 400 users, two web servers, and a print server.

WUDSS specs: Dell NX 1950 2 quad core cpus 8gbs ram coupled to 1 MD3000 6 TBs of SAS storage and 1 MD1000 15 TBs of SATA storage. Currently the WUDSS is being used for data storage and snapshots.

On a head to head using the same hardware Openfiler runs circles on WUDSS. In 487 days the openfiler has not been rebooted, in the last 60 days the WUDSS has been rebooted 9 times. 4 more 6650s will become availible soon they will be turned into openfiler boxes.

Save your cash we almost bought a $60k EMC 2 TB san solution overrated bigtime. robocopy and rsync are being used for replication and snapshots.

Reply Re: ESX iSCSI with Microsoft Storage Server? And planning questions... Apr 18, 2008 1:10 AM

in response to: estradar

daniel_uk 993 posts since
Oct 24, 2005

Not sure on costs but what about a Netapp Storevault?

Reply Re: ESX iSCSI with Microsoft Storage Server? And planning questions... Apr 18, 2008 6:38 AM

in response to: daniel_uk

estradar 6 posts since
Jan 4, 2007

Daniel,

The storevault ,unless you buy their high end versions, are basically a
Windows Unified Data Storage Server the same goes for SAN Melody.
Openfiler has been working very well for us. The only deficiency on
openfiler is the block level replication, but rsync and robocopy can
handle that very well nobody is perfect

Reply Re: ESX iSCSI with Microsoft Storage Server? And planning questions... Apr 18, 2008 6:52 AM

nitin_m 19 posts since
Jul 12, 2006

Try to use e-open DSS lite. Lot of people have been using it(as per their forums) - plus it installs on USB

Openfiler has not seen any development since.....6 months?

Reply Re: ESX iSCSI with Microsoft Storage Server? And planning questions... May 22, 2008 9:09 AM

in response to: nitin_m

old_netware_geek 1 posts since
May 22, 2008

I would avoid Open-E DSS, we have spent a ton of cash on them and the results is not great. It's build on debian but good luck getting to a CLI of any sort. With DSS you stuck using what they tell you to use.

We built out own for about $10,000. ISCSI SAN from scratch. It's a Sun 64bit AMD system with 4 infiniband 4x cards plugged right into out esx servers - its runs great.

As far as MSS, well I've tried it and the performance is not so hot. there is way to much overhead with the OS it self and on the wire.

If your a MS shop well then follow suit or start a movment.

-JT

Reply Re: ESX iSCSI with Microsoft Storage Server? And planning questions... May 22, 2008 10:04 AM

kukacz 87 posts since
May 20, 2007

Mike,

few months ago I tested MS iSCSI target for the purpose you're describing. The reasons why we didn't recommended it to our custommer were:

It works the way it stores all LUNs as common files on NTFS filesystem. Just imagine how long chain of filesystems and LUNs you're creating from VM down - they are: NTFS (as an example of VM fs) -> vmdk file on VMFS -> MS iSCSI file on NTFS -> some real storage LUN

The performance penalty was acceptable, but really not a fast one.

You can't build a high-available solution with it, since you can't have a mirrored storage and MS cluster together. MS dynamic disks don't work with MS cluster and even Symantes SFW disk mirroring doesn't work with MS cluster and iSCSI target. I spent lot of time trying to make it work this way with no result.

MS iSCSI Target had the worse product support I had ever seen in IT.

Solutions like open-e, WinTarget don't support clustering and mirroring together.

I would recommend to you LeftHand VSA for start. It can use your ESX server's local storage, provide synchronous mirroring features, snapshots and replications to remote site. You can evaluate it for free, just look here: http://www.lefthandnetworks.com/vsa_eval.aspx When you start with VSA, you can easily scale up to LeftHand's hardware cluster solution.

--
Lukas Kubin

Reply Re: ESX iSCSI with Microsoft Storage Server? And planning questions... Jun 23, 2009 6:20 AM

kimchong 2 posts since
Mar 24, 2009

This question is for Ed:

Can you think of any disadvantages/deficiencies of VMware ESX 3.5

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