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1 2 Previous Next 15 Replies Last post: Oct 12, 2007 12:00 AM by caciolli  

Any feedback on IBM's new Technote claiming poor performance with VI3? posted: Sep 11, 2007 8:37 PM

Click to view benny.hauk's profile Hot Shot 205 posts since
Dec 6, 2004
After a few months of throttled CPU on all our IBM Notes mail server VMs running on VI3, we've all but given up on running any Domino server (mail server or otherwise) on VMWare. We'd been hopeful when seeing the same thing in ESX2.5 that things would improve in VI3 but they haven't. We finally found this technote from IBM basically saying that they see the same thing (SAN/No SAN, 2.5/VI3) and can't find a workaround:

http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=203&uid=swg21252786

And their technote isn't talking about Domino either. They reproduce the CPU throttling within the VM (backedup by esxtop) using simple Windows copy (not dealing with network copies here, only disk IO) commands.

They seem to be saying that a significant portion of the IO work typically done by the physical hba has to be done in software when virtualized in ESX (aka, CPU cycles).

Anyone out there in the know disputing the claims IBM is making? We only found the technote because we've seen the exact same thing everyday. In the back of my mind I figured there was probably something that could be tweaked but we hadn't managed to find anything yet. Once I saw the technote from the super-highly-intelligent IBM eggheads, I didn't feel so bad ;)

I've seen some other postings like this one in which no one has given much explanation or been able to attribute seemingly huge IO problems to misconfiguration (only small differences seem to be tweakable):

http://www.vmware.com/community/click.jspa?searchID=-1&messageID=503100

Click to view mfleener's profile Novice 15 posts since
Mar 21, 2005

I'm not here to dispute anything. I would ask some questions that IBM did not make clear to me in the technote. They did not spell out what type of I/0 was inside the physical ESX host they tested. I would also be instrested in these specfics: NIC count/speed HBA count/speed. Also what kinda of load was on CPU 0 (the CPU that the VMware kernal uses), was a min CPU/Memory reservation set for the console OS? I'm of the mind set to give more resources to the console OS. I run a reservation of 1024MB and 800MHz for the console just to be safe. Also something to look at is %ready for the console and various VMware processes.

Anyway its something you can look at in your enviroment if you have not already.

Click to view esiebert7625's profile Guru 6,794 posts since
Oct 23, 2006
You would think they would simply open a case with VMware support and get their response on their issue. I see no mention of them contacting VMware to find out why they are seeing the results that they are seeing.
Click to view esiebert7625's profile Guru 6,794 posts since
Oct 23, 2006
I know alot of people that run some heavy I/O VM's like Domino/Exchange/SQL servers and have not had issues. If it was indeed that big a problem you would think more people would be complaining about this particulraly to VMware. I've been a Domino admin for over a dozen years and I know the Domino server can be a very big cpu/memory/disk consumer. There are so many server tasks that Domino runs (it seems like more and more each version, back in R3 it was so much simpler) that it can require some serious hardware to run on.I would not even recommend virtualizing Domino for large installations only small/medium installs.
Click to view mfleener's profile Novice 15 posts since
Mar 21, 2005

Benny,

Just for fun, do you mind sharing with us what you give to the console OS for Proc/Mem plus any reservation numbers. Count/Type NIC/HBAs would also be helpful.

Click to view hgaidhani's profile Novice 14 posts since
Aug 22, 2007

You may want to look at the VMworld session "WV21: IBM Lotus Domino and Lotus Sametime on VMware Infrastructure 3".


Click to view esiebert7625's profile Guru 6,794 posts since
Oct 23, 2006

You have mail....


Also have you seen this IBM technote...

http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=203&uid=swg21267837

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Thanks, Eric
Visit my website: http://vmware-land.com
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Click to view oreeh's profile Guru 9,872 posts since
Nov 30, 2005
<Moderator hat on>

You should ask the original author and VMware - not us moderators.

</Moderator hat off>
Click to view esiebert7625's profile Guru 6,794 posts since
Oct 23, 2006

I don't see why not, the presentations are not public yet but the information in them isn't confidential. Just like if you went to VMworld and came back and told your co-workers about everything you had seen and heard there. The presentations should all be available to the public shortly I expect. There is a thread on this in the vmworld forum...


http://www.vmworld.com/vmworld/message/1307#1307

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Visit my website: http://vmware-land.com
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Click to view esiebert7625's profile Guru 6,794 posts since
Oct 23, 2006
Well I just listened to the VMworld presentation and it basically confirmed that CPU utilization is much higher on virtualized Domino systems compared to physical systems. They are working with VMware to find out the reason why. A couple other things that stood out, VMFS performance was much better then RDM performance with Domino, also the key performance measure for Domino is user response time and a virtualized Domino server response time was almost equal and in a few cases better then the physical server.

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Thanks, Eric
Visit my website: http://vmware-land.com
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Click to view esiebert7625's profile Guru 6,794 posts since
Oct 23, 2006
Agreed, not every server is a good virtualization candidate. Domino is kind of unique because it has clustering and virtualization (server partitioning) built right into the application so if you use physical servers you still have those capabilities.

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Thanks, Eric
Visit my website: http://vmware-land.com
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