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1 2 Previous Next 22 Replies Last post: Sep 5, 2006 7:37 AM by francescod69   Go to original post

Re: VMFS-3 via FC SAN versus NFS on NAS

15. Aug 23, 2006 1:04 PM in response to: pops106
Click to view dalepa's profile Hot Shot 171 posts since
Aug 15, 2006
We ran benchmarks using the dbench ( http://www.freshports.org/benchmarks/dbench ) tool on our 9980 SAN and 3050 NAS. We added 1 NAS drive and 1 SAN drive to same guest running on a IBM 366 host. The NAS performed slightly (~6%) better than the SAN.

We also ran the same dbench NAS test using a Sun v20z host and compared it to our IBM 366 hosts. The v20z(2cpu) dbench benchmark was 70% faster than our IBM 366(4 cpu) box. So the host does make a big difference... (Can't wait to see how the SUN X4600 16-way opteron box performs )

We also ran a test using dd on both the NAS and SAN guest. Writes to the NAS and SAN were about the same, while reads from the NAS were up to 500% faster than the SAN. And again, the v20z was even higher at 70% faster than the IBM 366 for the dd test.

Summary:
1. Our NAS is just as fast or faster than our SAN.
2. Buy FAST hosts with lots of CPUs.

ymmv

Re: VMFS-3 via FC SAN versus NFS on NAS

16. Aug 23, 2006 1:06 PM in response to: Ken.Cline
Click to view dalepa's profile Hot Shot 171 posts since
Aug 15, 2006
good point... That's the only functionality loss that I have seen...

Re: VMFS-3 via FC SAN versus NFS on NAS

17. Aug 23, 2006 6:05 PM in response to: dalepa
Click to view Mike Fink's profile Hot Shot 204 posts since
Dec 21, 2005
I certainly think that NAS access has its place in the VMWare world, but if you have a large data center that already has an investment in FC, I would really suggest using it for your ESX host connections. A few reasons, which I will discuss below:

1GB vs 2GB. Although this is not really an issue for almost all Windows hosts, remember what VMWare does. Your going to be running many (lets guess 10 for right now) Windows machines down that one trunk. So, each machine has about 100Mb/200Mb of effective throughput. This is almost never an issue, execept when you start to pull backups. When you pull backups, your going to be hitting all the VMs hard for IO, you will see a difference between NAS and FC.

IO offload. FC cards are HBA's, they offload much of the storage processing. This is significant in the VMWare world; I went (on the same servers) from local to FC SAN disk, and the system processor (host system) dropped 20%, just by offloading the IO from the processor. You can use TOE, but it does not offload as much as an HBA.

Reliability. FC is tried and true in the VMWare world.

Cost? FC is very expensive, there is no denying that. However, think about what your doing; your jamming 10 servers down 1 FC card. When you amortize that cost over the VMs, the $$$ spent for the FC adapter really becomes a non-issue (figure 2000 for 2 single port adapters, or 200/server for disk connectivity; not bad).

Someone mentioned using SAN snapshots using NetApp; you can do this using NFS/iSCSI/FC. It does not matter. It works a little different for each, but there is not really any difference between any of them (NetApp stores the FC LUNs as a file, when you take a Snap, your actually taking a Snap of the .LUN file. In the VMWare world, this is exactly the same as taking a Snap of the VMDK file).

FC adds complexity; and costs significant $$$. However, if you have the infrastructure already, I would suggest that you connect the servers via FC. If your looking to build a large VMware farm in the future; again FC presents the right option. However, for many people NAS is the way to go.

Its great that we have all the options; they all have their place. However, nothing out today is gong to top FC for speed. Unfortunately, nothing is gong to top it for cost or complexity either. :)

Re: VMFS-3 via FC SAN versus NFS on NAS

18. Aug 24, 2006 3:03 AM in response to: Mike Fink
Click to view MechaNikos's profile Enthusiast 38 posts since
Aug 5, 2005
IO offload. FC cards are HBA's, they offload much of
the storage processing. This is significant in the
VMWare world; I went (on the same servers) from local
to FC SAN disk, and the system processor (host
system) dropped 20%, just by offloading the IO from
the processor. You can use TOE, but it does not
offload as much as an HBA.

This is the most important factor imho. The point is not whether you can use SAN/NAS/iSCSI etc.. You can. I'm using a simulated iSCSI SAN at home that has been working fine for more than two years and it performs surprisingly well. But when you need *sustained* throughput in a live environment, I think FC is well worth the money.

Not to mention the fact that a carefully designed FC SAN can come down to a more reasonable cost if you bypass the salesmen and do a bit of reading yourself.

Re: VMFS-3 via FC SAN versus NFS on NAS

19. Sep 5, 2006 1:51 AM in response to: MechaNikos
Click to view francescod69's profile Novice 4 posts since
Sep 5, 2006
Have somebody already made a performance comparative with FAS3020c on SAN FC 2Gbps and iSCSI with TOE QLA4010 cards ?
Do the failover, and the VMmotion migrations work in the same way?
And what about NAS configuration with VIF mode ??

Re: VMFS-3 via FC SAN versus NFS on NAS

20. Sep 5, 2006 7:32 AM in response to: francescod69
Click to view francescod69's profile Novice 4 posts since
Sep 5, 2006
What do you think about this comparative SAN and iSCSI on FAS3020 ?
Network Appliance™ FAS3020 and EMC CX500: Comparison of Usability and Performance

PS : Don't see EMC CX500 graph ;-)

Message was edited by:
ken.cline@hp.com to shorten URL

Re: VMFS-3 via FC SAN versus NFS on NAS

21. Sep 5, 2006 7:00 AM in response to: francescod69
Click to view epping's profile Expert 795 posts since
Oct 9, 2003
i never trust these tests, its the bit that starts "Network Appliance™ commissioned
VeriTest, a division of Lionbridge
Technologies Inc., to compare the
usability of a variety of features and
functionality that users of both the
NetApp® FAS3020 and the EMC
CLARiiON CX500"

I am sure if EMC asked them to do some tests the results would be the other way round.

on the other question of NFS or FC, i would say if your data is critical go with FC its the most established, i would wait a few years, that said i would not go to VI3 yet either..

Re: VMFS-3 via FC SAN versus NFS on NAS

22. Sep 5, 2006 7:37 AM in response to: epping
Click to view francescod69's profile Novice 4 posts since
Sep 5, 2006
Data is not very critical. The problem is to consolidate 24 VM on 3 hosts with the most moderate cost.

We have already deployed a big config ESX in SAN with 5 hosts and 24 VM by hosts, with dual path, because it is about a big site and because it needs performances there.
There it is about a small site where the economic aspect is very important.
Before engaging tests SAN vs iSCSI (+ QLA4010 cards) on a config FAS3020c (3TB), I just wish to share the experiment with somebody.
Thank you for your answer

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