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1 2 Previous Next 15 Replies Last post: May 26, 2006 8:53 PM by rcardona2k  

Windows XP OEM licence running under a VM posted: May 24, 2006 7:21 AM

Click to view myxiplx's profile Enthusiast 113 posts since
Apr 4, 2006
We're thinking of using VMware to solve a hardware / software compatibility issue we have with a few computers (we've an old DOS program that doesn't like modern graphics cards but seems ok with the virtual one).

The problem is I'm struggling to get a definitive answer as to XP OEM licences and whether we can legally do this.

The machine with the problems is running XP OEM so it's licenced for that box only. The plan is to have VMware player running on a basic linux client, and for Windows to then run under that.

The impression from all Microsoft's FAQ's is that OEM licences aren't valid for virtual machines and you need to buy new licences, but my thinking is that although we're running VMware we're still only running a single copy of the OS and we're running that on the hardware that it is licenced for.

Ok, there's an extra layer of software running above that, but does that really put us in violation of the licence? Personally I very much doubt MS would have excluded that specifically in the OEM licence at the time we purchased this box.

Ultimately we're complying the spirit of the licence so unless MS do have a specific clause denying us the right to do that I'd have thought we would be ok, regardless of what Microsoft would like to tell us in their FAQ's.

I'm trying to get hold of the full text of the licence to double check, but does anybody else have any thoughts on this?

Ross

Re: Windows XP OEM licence running under a VM

1. May 24, 2006 9:32 AM in response to: myxiplx
Click to view nick.couchman's profile Champion 4,969 posts since
Jan 13, 2006
I'm not an MS licensing expert, so I can't tell you for sure, but I believe OEM licenses are tied to a piece of hardware, period. You can transfer the hardware (and, consequently, the license) from one owner to another, but you cannot transfer the license from one piece of hardware to another. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft tells you (or has told you) that transferring from the physical machine to a VM constitutes transferring the license from one piece of hardware to another. Read the EULA very carefully and consult a licensing expert (maybe a lawyer) that has very few or no ties to Microsoft. Maybe there's someone around the forum with that sort of background, or maybe one of the VMware employees can ask their legal department. Whether or not you comply with the "spirit of the license," what it really comes down to is, 1) would Microsoft try to take you to court for violating their EULA if you do this, and 2) would they win?

Re: Windows XP OEM licence running under a VM

2. May 24, 2006 3:46 PM in response to: nick.couchman
Click to view devzero's profile Master 2,757 posts since
Dec 27, 2004
I'm not an MS licensing expert, so I can't tell you for sure, but I believe OEM
licenses are tied to a piece of hardware, period.

that really depends where you`re living....

from what i know about OEM in germany, it`s quite legal to re-use a OEM license on another computer or even inside a VM - OEM can even be sold separately

see
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Equipment_Manufacturer

regards
roland

Message was edited by:
devzero

Re: Windows XP OEM licence running under a VM

3. May 24, 2006 3:46 PM in response to: devzero
Click to view nick.couchman's profile Champion 4,969 posts since
Jan 13, 2006
OEM licenses can be purchased separately here in the states, too., but from my conversations with Microsoft licensing people, once you install a Windows OEM license on a machine, it is stuck with that machine. Some software vendors are more forgiving about transferring OEM licenses, but I don't think Microsoft is one of them. Of course, in Germany/Europe they might be forced to by local laws, but I don't think they are in the US.

Re: Windows XP OEM licence running under a VM

5. May 25, 2006 5:23 AM in response to: myxiplx
Click to view RDPetruska's profile Guru User Moderators vExpert 15,910 posts since
Jan 11, 2005
Well, you stated it yourself, in the paragraph about the HARDWARE. It's the very same reason that you need to reactiveate XP in a virtual machine even though you've already activated it on your physical installation (under the dual-boot setup). A Virtual computer (whether it be VMware, MS VPC, Parallels, etc.) contains its OWN, unique hardware that is DIFFERENT from the host's hardware. Therefore, if the OEM license says that it's tied to the computer (which refers to the hardware), then you cannot legally install it on a different computer with different hardware --> your virtual guest!

Re: Windows XP OEM licence running under a VM

7. May 25, 2006 6:58 AM in response to: myxiplx
Click to view nick.couchman's profile Champion 4,969 posts since
Jan 13, 2006
Yes, a virtual machine DOES contain it's own hardware. Just because some of the hardware happens to pass through from the host to the guest does NOT mean that it is the SAME hardware. Sorry, I think you're going to have to bite the bullet and buy another copy here. Each VMware machine has its own UUID that uniquely identifies the VM's hardware. You can move that VM from one physical machine to another without affecting the VM itself. That right there should tell you something about the HARDWARE on the virtual machine.

I see what you're saying about the EULA, but I think that if it were to come down to an battle between yourself and Microsoft, Microsoft would win on this one. Microsoft would probably go to VMware's documentation and point out that the documentation says that each VM contains its own set of hardware. Whether that hardware is physical or virtual is beside the point - it's still hardware.

The problem is really that Microsoft has not fully addressed the issue of "virtual hardware." Again, if you can get an opinion from an outside (of Microsoft) legal licensing expert (which I am not), that would be the best.

Re: Windows XP OEM licence running under a VM

8. May 25, 2006 9:17 AM in response to: nick.couchman
Click to view DaveP's profile Master 1,409 posts since
Aug 30, 2003
I discussed this with MS over distributing Windows as VMware to clients. Basically said we had to become an OEM reseller, and buy a license per guest shipped, irrespective of what the host was. Personally I would agree with you it is a big risk to take.

Also in the past VMware used to sell with OEM copies of Windows 2000.

Dave

Re: Windows XP OEM licence running under a VM

9. May 25, 2006 9:27 AM in response to: DaveP
Click to view nick.couchman's profile Champion 4,969 posts since
Jan 13, 2006
Yeah, if you're distributing them you open up a whole larger can of worms. We ship Windows periodically with some of the products that we produce, but we don't actually manufacture and distribute PC's or VM's, so we don't need to be an OEM partner. I was afraid there for a while that I was going to have to sign up for that, though...

Re: Windows XP OEM licence running under a VM

10. May 25, 2006 11:17 AM in response to: nick.couchman
Click to view DaveP's profile Master 1,409 posts since
Aug 30, 2003
You can resell Retail copies as well. We decided against that whole approach in the end.

Re: Windows XP OEM licence running under a VM

12. May 25, 2006 2:07 PM in response to: myxiplx
Click to view devzero's profile Master 2,757 posts since
Dec 27, 2004
i cannot believe how much time in this world is being spent on discussing about licensing....

go ask your favourite MLSS/MLSE (http://www.microsoft.com/uk/partner/gearup/licensing/mlss/default.aspx) and stop wasting _your_ own lifetime (maybe it`s better to switch to some OS where you don´t need to discuss about this)

;)

roland

ps:
sorry for being harsh, but the longer i work in IT the more it`s getting on my nerves. i´ve already spent DAYS on solving/discussing licensing questions....

Re: Windows XP OEM licence running under a VM

13. May 25, 2006 2:24 PM in response to: myxiplx
Click to view nick.couchman's profile Champion 4,969 posts since
Jan 13, 2006
Okay, I agree with Roland that you really need to ask an expert about this. I'm not sure a Microsoft expert is the way to go, but some sort of licensing expert. We aren't licensing experts and we can't tell you exactly what the EULA means.

That said, even though the EULA is between the manufacturer and you, that doesn't mean that Microsoft doesn't have a stake in the EULA, as well. They wrote it!! In the end it doesn't matter whether or not the manufacturer is okay with your interpretation, if Microsoft tells the manufacturer that your interpretation is wrong, the manufacturer will tell you that you're wrong. In the end, it's the combination of Microsoft's opinion of the situation and a legal interpretation of the situation that counts. Period. That's it. I go back to my original statement: If Microsoft should take you to court over this claiming license infringement, and you can stand up to them and win, yes you can do it. Otherwise you can't.

I realize that you have a fairly significant financial interest in seeing that this question is resolved your way. That's why I'm suggesting that you go consult as unbiased an expert as you can find about it. Microsoft's experts are biased because they want your money. You're biased because you don't want to give up your money. Find someone who will tell you the facts - not someone who is going to tell you what Microsoft wants to hear or what you want to hear.

Re: Windows XP OEM licence running under a VM

14. May 26, 2006 12:07 AM in response to: devzero
Click to view DaveP's profile Master 1,409 posts since
Aug 30, 2003
Couldn't agree more!! It's a PITA dealing with these issues even within my own company.

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