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14 Replies Last post: Nov 20, 2009 12:52 PM by djaquays  

IBM DS3400, NetApp FAS2050, or Equillogic PS6000XV for Production Environment posted: Nov 2, 2009 9:37 AM

Click to view CLS1's profile Novice 5 posts since
Nov 2, 2009
We are in the early stages of virtualizing our production environment (K-12) and are evaluating our storage options. We had a Capacity Planning study done and the recommendation is for 3 servers with 3TB of useable capacity. We are looking at virtualizing about 75 Windows servers and a few NetWare servers. The NetWare servers will become Windows servers down the road, but for now will remain NetWare. Initially we were looking at Fiber Channel for performance reasons, but from the Capacity Planning results, it looks like we will be fine with iSCSI. We have received pricing for the following units.


Dell Equillogic PS6000 with 16 450GB SAS drives: 4.7TB Useable in RAID 50 config.

NetApp FAS2050 with 20 450GB SAS Drives: 5TB Useable in RAID DP Config.

IBM DS3400 with 24 450GB SAS Drives: 9.45TB Useable in RAID 6 with Hot Spare.

We are going under the assumption that any of the above solutions will satisfy our needs, however; the IBM rep did say to be aware of the FAS2050 for large Vmware environments as he has concerns with the controller being able to keep up - he recommended a FAS2040 at a minimum if we go with NetApp. Is this accurate?

If we go with iSCSI, we will need a new core switch and if we go with Fiber Channel, we will need to purchase FC switches and the HBAs for the servers. When factoring in the software, support and any hardware needed to complete the storage solution, the total cost for the NetApp solution is the most expensive with the IBM and Equillogic solutions being about the same. We are leaning toward the IBM solution currently as it yields the most useable space for about the same total cost as the Equillogic and is fiber channel. Also, if we calculate the cost per TB of useable space, the IBM comes in at half the cost of the Equillogic and is 60% less than the NetApp.

Am I missing something in my decision? Is the software available and deduplication that is available on the NetApp worth 60% more per TB than the IBM solution? It is unlikely that we would be purchasing a 2^nd^ unit soon, so replication is not a big concern - we are looking at Double-Take for replicating critical servers. Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Click to view Anton V Zhbankov's profile Champion 2,871 posts since
May 26, 2008
NetApp has hardware deduplication, so 5TB can become 6 or 8 or even 20 TB, depending on your actual data.

---
MCSA, MCTS, VCP, VMware vExpert '2009
http://blog.vadmin.ru
Click to view Altix's profile Hot Shot 112 posts since
Jul 19, 2008

The DS3400 isnt on the HCL for vSphere so i dont know if is a good idea for your "production" environment. You didnt mentioned the use of Apps like MS SQL or MS Exchange. If you have them ask your storage vendor if he any special support for it. Consider license cost for storage functions like snapshots, cloning, replication and so on.

For planing a fabric consider the use of 2 switches (FC or LAN) instead of one.

How many ESX(i) Hosts are you planing on?

Regards
Joerg

'Remember if you found this or others answers helpful do not forget to award points by marking an answer as helpful or correct'

Click to view king@it.ibm.com's profile Virtuoso 2,927 posts since
Jan 16, 2004
To set the record straight the DS3400 is indeed on the HCL and it has been for a while. Maybe you are confusing it with the iSCSI- based DS3300 (which is not on the HCL).

To this point I would probably suggest that, if you are going to stick with 3 servers, the best option might be the DS3300 (SAS-based) which is on the HCL and would not require external switches. See pg 10 of this PDF:
http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/resources/systems_storage_disk_ds3000_pdf_config.pdf

From a performance perspective I doubt very much you will see a difference (it's 3Gbit Vs 4Gbit). Spend your money on the spindles.

FC is not faster than SAS.... it's better when it comes to large deployments, fabrics, interconnects, etc etc. For a simple deployment like yours SAS is the way to go (in my opinion).

You may want to have a look at the BC-S as well but I think that would be too limited for you in terms of disks expansions (http://it20.info/blogs/main/archive/2008/11/14/162.aspx)

Massimo.
Click to view king@it.ibm.com's profile Virtuoso 2,927 posts since
Jan 16, 2004
I am sorry.

DS3300 (SAS-based) which is on the HCL

That was a typo. I meant:

DS3200 (SAS-based) which is on the HCL

The DS3200 (SAS-based) is what I was suggesting you to have a look at (and yes the 3200 is on the HCL).

The only limitation is that you can direct attach up to 3 hosts.

Massimo.
Click to view ablej's profile Hot Shot 131 posts since
Feb 19, 2008
Personally I would go with the Netapp FAS2050. I would consider NFS on Netapp you'll see even better dedupe rates and is very easy to manage. With your environment consisting mostly of Windows VM's it's possible to see up to 70%-80% in deduplication savings. You may also want to get pricing from IBM NSeries which is a Netapp device just branded with IBM face plate. If you would like more on Netapp NFS just let me know.






David Strebel
www.holy-vm.com

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Click to view Anton V Zhbankov's profile Champion 2,871 posts since
May 26, 2008
For the $21,000 I could add another shelf to the IBM and end up with over 20TB of raw space.

Add place in the rack, electricity, cooling, support contract, ports cost... What would be TCO?

Are you sure you won't be fell in love with some NetApp features IBM just doesn't have?

---
MCSA, MCTS, VCP, VMware vExpert '2009
http://blog.vadmin.ru
Click to view ablej's profile Hot Shot 131 posts since
Feb 19, 2008
I agree with Anton here you also need to look at the foot print of the storage and look at cost savings. Also Netapp's Snap Manager for VI is great for a backup solution. You can restore VM's within minutes with SMVI. With version 2.0 it can also do file level restores. Also if you plan to do DR in the future Netapp Snap Mirror works great. I have nothing against IBM storage, but I just don't think that it's best suited for virtual infrastructures.






David Strebel
www.holy-vm.com

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Click to view Anton V Zhbankov's profile Champion 2,871 posts since
May 26, 2008
Unfortunately can't help you more - have no real experience with NetApp. I'm stuck with HP storage.

---
MCSA, MCTS, VCP, VMware vExpert '2009
http://blog.vadmin.ru
Click to view ablej's profile Hot Shot 131 posts since
Feb 19, 2008
It depends on your worload. What type of VM's will you be hosting MSSQL,Oracle,Exchange,file, AD, etc? Are you looking at a Active/Active or single controller? Will you be consolidating any other kind of data on the Netapp such as Cifs or SQL Luns? How much will you be expanding over five years? The major difference between the 2050 and 2040 is the expandibility.






David Strebel
www.holy-vm.com

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Click to view djaquays's profile Enthusiast 27 posts since
Apr 1, 2009
We currently have a NetApp FAS2050 (2, in fact) one that runs our production VMs (NFS) and another that is our offsite DR (snapmirror) and backup (snapvault) target. We have 5 ESX hosts and about 40 VMs that are either SLE, Windows Server or NetWare. If our CPU usage averages 10%, it's been a crazy day. Normally the average sits around 3-5%. That being said.. if I had the option to go back and do things over again.. I would have waited a couple more months for the 2040 to come out. FAR more flexible and allows you to use the 24 drive SAS trays instead of the 14 drive FC trays without sacrificing connectivity to iscsi/nfs clients (by using the single PCIx slot).

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