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8 Replies Last post: Nov 2, 2009 1:07 AM by mreferre  

Evaluating HP, Dell, IBM Solutions for small VMware deployment posted: Oct 13, 2009 12:18 AM

Click to view Chiper1's profile Lurker 1 posts since
Oct 13, 2009

Gday All,
Currently doing some research for a solution to consolidate our 6 or so servers using VMware. We are looking to implement HA, DRS and VMotion. Our budget for the hardware is about $30K AUD and we currently have 10 users.

We have the following server roles to consolidate and they are running on various ESX hosts with local storage and physical servers at present
DC (100GB data)
Exchange (9GB Mailbox Store, PF 0GB)
BES (2 Devices currently no more than 5)
SQL (2 databases, 1 MSP app)
Web (2 web applications, 1 MSP app)
TS (Max 2 simultaneous users)
VCS (To manage ESX hosts)

Based on our small user base, direct attached SAS should suffice. Moving forward we are looking at moving into virtual hosting to provide our customers with hosted application solutions and will probably role this out with VMware View so we should make provision for this.

Initially we would aim to install this hardware locally however as we convert customers to our hosted solution would require to move this to a data centre purely based on bandwidth requirements.

With this in mind we are considering a blade solution to
A - Ensure smallest footprint as possible
B - Ensure expandability

That said we have come up with the following solutions and would appreciate any feedback or advice you can offer in relation to these products.

Each host has the following specs
24GB RAM (6 x 4GB modules)
2 x 72GB SAS 15K HDD RAID 1 - For ESX install
2 x Xeon Quad Core 95W 2.66GHz/1333MHz CPU

Each storage has the following specs
Dual Controller model
5 x 450GB SAS 15K 3.5" HDD RAID 5 (1.8TB storage)

Option A - IBM ($9K More)
2 x IBM X3650 M2 Servers
1 x DS3200 SAS Storage Array Dual Controller
OR
Blade Centre S Chassis
2 x HS22 Blades

Option B - HP ($4K More)
2 x HP DL380 G6 X5550 Servers
1 x 2012SA DC Modular Smart Array

Option C - Dell (Best Price)
2 x Power Edge R710 Rack Mount Servers
1 x Power Vault MD3000 with HA solution

Would like to thank anyone that takes the time to offer advice, its all clear as mud as we slowly battle through the design phase.


Cheers,
Chiper

Click to view TobiasKracht's profile Expert 593 posts since
Aug 31, 2009
If you are planning to implement High availability, and HA-alike functions you will need to use shared storage anyway.

StarWind Software R&D
Click to view BryanMcC's profile Expert 282 posts since
Feb 20, 2007

In addtion I would beef up the RAM from 24 to at least 32GB especially if you are going to go with HA/DRS and you only have two servers.. Exchange and SQL can be some big memory consumers and you would want the ability to take a single host failure.

Memory will always be your bottleneck in the virtual space.

The IBM solution with the S chassis is a good bet if you would like to use their integrated storage for shared storage accross you ESX servers.. And the HS22 max memory is at 96GB last I checked. I would get as close to the sweet spot on memory as possible with your solution which woudl probably be filing up all slots with 4GB DIMMs. As far as the S chassis from IBM it is designed for the exact purpose you are looking at.

Hope that helps.

Help me help you by scoring points.

Click to view hitchcock4's profile Novice 11 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

Hi,

You mention expandability -- I think you should spend a bit more money and consider a simple SAN in your purchase. We have two Dell (Equallogic) SANs and we are very happy with them. They do not require expensive fiber HBAs and they are not complex.

I had not touched a SAN before two years ago and I consider the Equallogic to be a great SAN for these reasons:

1) It is easy to setup.

2) The overall cost (compared to other SANS) is VERY good.

3) They are reliable. No controller failures or disk failures in 2 years.

For the budget-minded, please consider the Dell PS4000E. You will need more hard drive space eventually. As one of the above people mentioned, you will want shared storage to do vMotion, and the HA functions in VMware.

If you have a question, please ask.

Click to view johnhaas's profile Lurker 5 posts since
Mar 4, 2008

I will try to keep my comments short, being I have many of them.

1. I agree with the memory comments, except that nehalems require you to stay in groups of 6 for best performance. Being 12 DIMMs will slow down the memory speed of the2.66 GHz E5550 processor. I would suggest 12x4G DIMMs for the best price performance, giving you 48G, and dropping down to the 2.53GHz E5540 processor; which will match the memory speed and save some money. The memory for cpu trade off is well worth it. http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/products/server/processor/xeon5000/specifications

2. Don't forget Fujitsu. They have a solid product line and decent support. With all servers being servers, choose the vendor you feel you will get the best support out of.

3. You don't necessarilly need a SAN. You just need shared storage. I use a NetApp filer and run my vms over NFS. It is an inexpensive way to have shared storage and not have to foot the bill for FC. Anyone that says that NFS does not scale or perform can come see my 500+ production guests running on IBM x3850s backed by a NetApp filer. I also run approximately 500 more VMs over FC and iSCSI, so I am intimately familiar with the differences. The value add of NFS, especially for a small shop, is very good. Dedup mixed with the Rapid Cloning Utility means that I can run these VMs thin provisioned on my storage without giving VMware any more of my money. Snap Drive for VMware lets me take hot backups of my VMs and mirror them to a DR site without having to deal with vmwares snapshot implementation; which eats disk space.

4. If you decide to go with 10G networking, get an Intel NIC. I don't care what server you buy. VMware has the best support for Intel. They know Intel. They even hint at Intel in their docs. (No, I don't work for Intel. You can guess who I work for by reading comment 3.)

Click to view RDellimmagine's profile Virtuoso 1,695 posts since
Jul 19, 2004
Thread moved.

Robert Dell'Immagine, Director of VMware Communities
Click to view hutchingsp's profile Hot Shot 255 posts since
Jun 21, 2007

Random thought but as I've been playing with it lately, why not get a pair of boxes with some fast local storage and run Lefthand VSA on both?

I would look carefully at the option with the MD3000i, we have one which was use as "dumb as rocks" shared storage because that's what it is, dumb as rocks compared to something such as the VSA or Equallogic boxes.

Click to view azn2kew's profile Champion vExpert 2,949 posts since
Jun 21, 2006

You should be worry about your performance, and its related to storage design, if you have low end storage that's going to be a problem for you but looking at your environment, you only have 6 servers and those are very light usage so you can safely use any solutions mentioned above, but from experience Dell Equallogic and Lefthand's Network VSA are great solutions for this environment and they are easy expandable and scalable as well as performance.

I would use local SAS drives maximize all the space you can order with the server and use the following Lefthand VSA, SANmelody, Starwind iSCSI, Openfiler iSCSI/NFS these works really well too and free. If you have to buy a real SAN, Dell Equallogic, Lefthand's VSA, Falconstor and NetApp are rock solid and reliable. Just price it according to your budget and architect your ESX clusters for future growth.

Otherwise, just invest in external cloud solutions where you don't have to pay for CAPEX and just pay as you go. Very flexible service model for your small environment.

If you found this information useful, please consider awarding points for "Correct" or "Helpful". Thanks!!!

Regards,

Stefan Nguyen
VMware vExpert 2009
iGeek Systems Inc.
VMware, Citrix, Microsoft Consultant

Click to view mreferre's profile Virtuoso vExpert 2,949 posts since
Jan 16, 2004
Chiper1,

the only thing I can say is that the BC-S solution has been built with that specific architecture in mind. It is by far the "most elegant" of all.

http://it20.info/blogs/main/archive/2008/11/14/162.aspx

Having this said your scenario is pretty entry-level and minimalist (so to speak) and you won't be wrong if you decide to go with the BC-S alternatives.

Massimo.

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