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bjrosen
Contributor
Contributor

Questions on free version of ESXi, support for desktop Core2 systems?

VMware has announced a free version of ESXi. I've been using VMware Server (both 1.0.6 and 2.0RC) on Fedora and CentOS systems. I gather ESXi differs from server in that it doesn't sit on a host OS, instead it is the host OS. I was wondering if ESXi can run on any desktop Core2 motherboards? I've read that ESXi is a stripped down Linux, if so can you install a standard Linux kernel on it? RHEL/CentOS doesn't run on modern motherboards because of the antique kernels they use, the remedy for that is to install a recent kernel (I'm using a 2.6.23.xx kernel on my CentOS5.2 box which gives me both hardware compatibilty and VMware Server 2.0RC1 compatibilty), can the same thing be done with ESXi?

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depping
Leadership
Leadership

Well I ran it on my IBM X61 Laptop, which has a dual core centrino motherboard. So I guess you should be able to run it. But it will probably not be supported in the end, if that's what you are looking for.

Duncan

My virtualisation blog:

If you find this information useful, please award points for "correct" or "helpful".

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Dave_Mishchenko
Immortal
Immortal

ESX / ESXi are not a stripped down version of Linux. The vmkernel for both is proprietary software. ESX uses a Red Hat VM for the service console and ESXi uses BusyBox to interact with the VMkernel. You'll be able to run ESXi on a Core2 motherboard. See the below link for a list of whiteboxes that have been tested. The more critical concern is support for your storage controller and network card. If you look at the HCL ( http://www.vmware.com/pdf/vi35_io_guide.pdf ) for storage and network cards you'll get an idea of what ESXi will support. ESXi will also work (but is not supported) with a number of SATA controllers (like the Intel ICH / nVidia MCP series).

for

http://www.vm-help.com/esx/esx3.5/Whiteboxes_SATA_Controllers_for_ESX_3.5_3i.htm

bjrosen
Contributor
Contributor

I see P35 and ICH9 listed, has anyone run it on a P45/ICH10 motherboard?

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Erik_Bussink
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

RHEL/CentOS doesn't run on modern motherboards because of the antique kernels they use,

Ouch... my experience of using CentOS & RHEL on a lot of different systems doesn't give me the same point of view as you.

Which release of RHEL/CentOS are you using ? And exactly, what do you mean by modern motherboard ?

Erik Bussink Solution Architect @VMware CISSP, VCP#67, RHCE, DCUCD
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bjrosen
Contributor
Contributor

I'm using CentOS 5.2. My motherboard, Abit AB9 Pro, uses the Realtek RTL8111/8168B Ethernet MACs which is a very common MAC on Core2 motherboards. The Linux kernel has supported them since 2.6.19 but the CentOS 5.2 kernel doesn't. I put a 2.6.23.17 kernel on the system which was the latest kernel that VMware Server 2.0 Beta2 would compile with. I haven't tried to see if VMware Server 2.0 RC1 will compile with a current kernel, Server 1.0.6 does work with a 2.6.25 kernel so it's possible that RC1 might also work.

I've been using virtualization to break the connection between hardware compatiblity and software compatibility. On most of my systems I use Fedora 9 as the host and then use CentOS as a client. Fedora provides excellent hardware compatibility but mediocre software compatibility. A CentOS VM on top of F9 fixes the software compatibilty issues. The downside of VMware Server is that the virtual IO isn't very good. I did a lot of benchmarking of my important applications. What I found was that VMware Server 2.0 Beta was 90% of native performance if all of the IO was to a virtual disk, but only about 30% of native performance if the IO was to an NFS mounted host directory. KVM did better with the virtual disk, it was about 95% of native, but much worse on an NFS mounted local directory, it was half the performance of VMware Server 2.0Beta 2. VMware Workstation fixes the virtual IO problem, it seems to perform as well with a shared disk as it does with a virtual disk. ESXi looks intringing assuming it has shared disk capability. I intend to play with it when it becomes available tomorrow, however my concern is that by using their own kernel VMware has given up one of the most important advantages of virtualization and that is the ability to support the latest hardware. The Linux kernel keeps up with new hardware but only in the latest kernel. RH doesn't bother to backport new drivers to their ancient kernels, at least not for desktop hardware. Supporting new hardware will be much harder for VMware, assuming that they really are using their own kernel and not a modified Linux kernel, because they will have to write or port all of the drivers themselves.

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Scottish_Captai
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

There is no support for "desktop" systems.

ESX is a business/enterprise product. ESXi is derived from that. The fact that it supports /some/ consumer hardware is awesome. However, most of that stuff is so unreliable that there's little point or business in going about supporting it.

That being said, in the corporate world, you often pick your application- then design the machine around that.

The RTL8111 is at best a consumer grade chipset. VMware has no business supporting it. The e1000 is that grey area where a lot of "consumer" grade boards actually utilize an e1000/Intel chipset, as do a lot of servers out there. VMware supports e1000 devices because they have to- because there's a demand for it in the business sector. They don't support the RTL8111 because it's a chipset found /only/ on desktop systems which they do /not/ officially support.

VMware has given up one of the most important advantages of virtualization and that is the ability to support the latest hardware.

I don't mean to be blunt, but like what? That Nvidia 9800 graphics card or Soundblaster X-FI?

Server grade hardware doesn't change a whole lot. Buy a Xeon based system today, it'll probably use the same NIC chipset as the next model up 6 or 12 months from now. Buy a consumer grade motherboard from the local computer dealer, and there's a good chance Revision 2 of the same board in ~2 months will feature an entirely different NIC.

VMware supports a /large/ amount of hardware, server wise. Consumer wise, they barely make a dent, because theres just so many cheaply and quickly produced solutions out there, all and each different in they're own way.

Supporting new hardware will be much harder for VMware, assuming that they really are using their own kernel and not a modified Linux kernel, because they will have to write or port all of the drivers themselves.

Not really.

Most (all?) drivers in ESX or ESXi are /ported/ from the Linux variants.

I can confirm that ESXi, and it's kernel, VMKernel, is indeed a completely custom solution created by VMware. VMkernel in itself is not based directly on Linux, but offers subtle compatibility (?) to make porting easy. That's not to say you can compile your own kernel modules, because you can't. VMware can, however, support the hardware they choose relatively easy.

As per the above statement, VMware supports most of the business/enterprise hardware that matters.

Personally, if you're serious about running ESXi (like I am), you'd be better off building your own ESXi system. Think of it this way- with ESXi going free, VMware's giving you your $500 (or whatever it is) back to put towards a new system.

-SC

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pskipton
Contributor
Contributor

So what you are saying is "its soon going to be free, you take your chances if it will run on unsupported hardware" gee I thought this was a given LOL

Well sometimes it has to be spelled out.

and its 12:30 here and only 8:45 there, maybe ill wait till morning here to come get it..

Life is good running ESX on Dell Poweredge 2850's decked out!!!!!

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hrp
Contributor
Contributor

Bottom line... ESX (all flavours) is a product designed to run on server-class hardware.

There are a number of unsupported configurations that may work, your mileage may vary.

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Formatter
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Wonder if it will be here for download by 12:00??

I have installed and used ESX 3.5 on the Dells but this is for R&D on the Novell I am setting up to run on the ESX 3.5

Life is good running ESX on Dell Poweredge 2850's decked out!!!!!

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Dave_Mishchenko
Immortal
Immortal

ESXi 3.5 Update 2 is now available and would run in a 60 day eval mode once you install it. You can then add a free license to it later.

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Formatter
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Thats true,, Just checking if that is the waay it will be set up. Also its only ESXi that VMware is doing this with or is it ESX also?

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Dave_Mishchenko
Immortal
Immortal

It'll only be ESXi that'll be offered for free. ESX will eventually be phased out.

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Formatter
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Ok well, ESX phased out and replaced with ESXi? Interesting. Thanks for the info

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einstein-a-go-g
Hot Shot
Hot Shot

Intel Executive Motherboards are ones to try, all you need networking (e1000), SATA (ich9/10) SATA integrated into mini-motherboards.

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kuldipsingh
Contributor
Contributor

I have tried ESXi on ASUS P5Q Pro motherboard which has ICH10 chipset and it did not recognize my SATA drives. So ESXi does not support ICH10.

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kuldipsingh
Contributor
Contributor

I managed to get my whitebox up and running. My solution applies to ASUS P5Q PRO Motherboard.

I have done the following

I updated simple.map and pci.ids files with the following information.

Add this entry in simple.map file: 8086:3a22 0000:0000 storage ahci

Add this entry in pci.ids file: 3a22 6port SATA AHCI Controler (ICH10)

Note: 0x3a22 is device id and 8086 is vendor id (Intel)

Make sure in BIOS storage is set for AHCI mode not IDE or RAID

With this info, please follow the link below to learn how you can update these 2 files.

http://www.vm-help.com/esx/esx3i/customize_oem_tgz.php

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TechOzy
Contributor
Contributor

Hi,

I tried to get Vmware ESX 3.5 to work on an P5Q Premium. Well as i read i guess there is no solution to get the softraid of the ICH10R to work with ESX... May there be any updates on that point?

Btw, you tested a P5Q Pro right, does that board ship with marvell yukkon ethernet links like the Premium? If yes, can you please tell me if they work?

If no softraid, have you successfully tested a (cheap) raid controller ?

I actually work in a very small company, and i test ESX to get used to it, deploying it to our bigger customers.

I have that P5Q premium as test server with 5 hard drives, 3 in raid 5 & 2 in raid 1. No way to get that done with ESX without spending thousands of dollars ?

Thank you.

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patagonian_toot
Contributor
Contributor

Hi Kuldip

I have a P5Q Pro as well, with a Q6600, and I'm having a bit of grief with this approach actually. I've been trying but evidently not doing it right - the ESXi installer still gives me the dreaded problem screen after pressing F11

Can you please share with me the files that you had to change with perhaps some instructions on how to get it incorporated into the ISO so I can boot the blasted thing?

Please help!

Thank you

John

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kuldipsingh
Contributor
Contributor

My post is quite clear about it. There is a link that explains how to modify the required files. If you still need more information, please email me back.

Thanks,

kuldip singh

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