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RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

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RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

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RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

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RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

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RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

Citrix XD is better — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 05:06:36 GMT

You are full of bs. I have witnessed the two products Citrix XenDesktop and VMW-VDI and it's not even a contest. We witnessed a Citrix-XD running ESPN as well as you would see on your tv. In a side by side test, VMW failed. Very choppy video and distorted sound. The difference was much greater when they induced latency. I was asked to provide feedback for the demo and it was a no brainer...Citrix won.

RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

akash1980 — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 15:09:07 GMT

Steve, I need your help. We are planning to implement Xendesktop VDI solution and I am doing research on that and trying to understand the technology. Can you help me with some good whitepapers or docs with steps to implement?

I gone through http://support.citrix.com/servlet/KbServlet/download/18074-102-98469/Getting-Started-XenDesktop.pdf.

Can you help me with this question?
Virtual Center should be up and running for the Citrix xen desktop vdi solution to work?

I think it works, but I need your comment on this.

Your help will be appreciated. Thanks,

RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

Kevin Goodman — Fri, 23 May 2008 22:21:01 GMT

Warren, It wasn't just XenDesktop --- All of Synergy was DOA in my opinion. I estimate that there were half of the attendees that iForum had. No XenApp 5.0 announcement (still "project Delaware"). Also, Citrix promised that Brian Madden would speak at GeekSpeek and it simply wasn't true. While there were some great speeches (Shawn Bass' comes to mind), I'm not sure how Citrix gets away with promising Brian Madden and then not delivering. Compared to VMworld Europe which was a complete sellout -- it is probably the first conference I know of that people were scalping badges -- Synergy was downright depressing. Anyway, off to Briforum -- I wonder if Briforum will get more attendees than Synergy did...

RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

wponder — Thu, 22 May 2008 20:02:21 GMT

No I did not. I did see the more compelling demos the second day where it was working.

RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

rogerk — Thu, 22 May 2008 05:33:50 GMT

Did you happen to go back into the keynote after the break, after a failed piece of hardware was replaced, and watch it run successfully?

RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

Dean F. — Thu, 22 May 2008 00:03:25 GMT

"So have an open mind, and recommend the best solution..."

Steve, having and open mind and recommending the best solution can be two dynamically opposing positions - especially for product manufacturers. For consulting firms, they are typically one and the same. A good consultant (such as yourself) would not be in business if he/she didn't have an open mind and/or didn't recommend the best solution.

For product manufacturers, recommending the best solution for a given situation is somewhat vague for a couple of reasons and not always in line with having an open mind about other products which may fit the situation better.

First and foremost, all product manufacturers (and nearly all other companies) are sales driven so they will recommend a solution from their arsenal of products if one exists.

Second, if a solution doesn't exist in their arsenal of products, they will recommend a partner's product that does solve the issue at hand.

And finally, it should be noted that if a competitor has a better solution, it would be detrimental to the product manufacturer's bottom line to recommend their customer go use the competitor's product. The primary goal of any company is, of course, to make money.

A good example would be if I went to Citrix with one of my Novell/Citrix customers and said the customer wants to virtualize the majority of their Novell and Citrix servers, what is Citrix going to say? "We support Novell SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 9SP2, 9SP3, 10SP1 on XenServer." The problem there, is that most Novell customers have not updated - or fully updated - to Novell SUSE Linux Enterprise servers. The vast majority still run NetWare 6.x. In that scenario, Citrix is NOT going to say, "We don't support those older Novell operating systems as XenServer guests. Your customer's best bet is to go with VMware ESX 3.5." even thought that is definitely the better solution for the vast majority of Novell/Citrix customers out there - since we know that VMware ESX 3.5 can run any flavor of Novell and any flavor of Windows (with or without Citrix). To extend this back to the Virtual Desktop environment, it would only make sense for my Novell/Citrix customers to then utilize VMware's VDI to deliver desktops for those who need something more than a locked down Citrix desktop.

An even better example of a product manufacturer recommending a solution within their arsenal of products would be the Microsoft MCSE exams, where Microsoft's recommendation for RAID is to use Software stripping with parity (excuse me while I take a moment to roll on the floor, laughing my <appendage> off).

The truth of the matter is, whether it be Citrix, VMware, Microsoft, or any other product manufacturer, you're not going to hear them recommend a competitor's product, no matter how much better (or not) the competitor's solution fits the situation.

And if you (or anyone else) are ever out here in Seattle, I'd be happy to by by a round!

-Dean

RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

wponder — Wed, 21 May 2008 23:37:42 GMT

Shawn I would love too!! Please do not think I am saying WAN use cases are a niche.... they are very real. IMO I believe VDI opens the door to a much higher percentage of desktops that we have been able to reach in the last 13 years as a whole. When I look at those numbers what I am trying to say is desktops delivered across the is a small percentage of an entire desktop landscape where desktop might be delivered or accessed in a variety of ways.

RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

wponder — Wed, 21 May 2008 23:30:06 GMT

Hey Steve, I have to disagree. I would gladly swallow any crow related to FUD that I have spread. I hope anyone that has heard me speak, read any of my published content or knows any customers, I have engaged with will agree. I take a really fair an balanced approach to the strengths and weakness's of the solutions I know and have experience with and do so in effort to be a trusted advisor to customers looking to solve business challenges.

I clearly highlight where I think our competition offers strong value, where I feel we offer strong value, and any trade offs in a combined solution, where possible. I can only speak for myself as my blog represents my opinion and what I experience.

Following the valid comment from Dean there is a TON of "Cannon Fodder", now my favorite statement of the week, out there. I am feeling more of a responsibility to clarify the reality around claims such as " High Definition user experiences" "On Demand Desktops" "Desktop Appliances are not thin clients" just to name a few. To me, it seems a lot of these claims go unchallenged? No one seems to want to talk about topics like the ICA differences between Xen Desktop and Xen App for example.

Perhaps I am biased, but in the VDI space, I see a lot more misleading information coming from the competition than I do from VMware. I hear it from customers daily, I see it in their campaigns and I saw it on stage. As I mentioned, it was in good fun as I am sure this was also http://community.citrix.com/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=29851673&showComments=true#comments

What I reported happened, was real and did occur it was not FUD. I simply shared it. As I mentioned, on Madden's sight, it does suck it happened and I can relate. We have WYSE MMR for VMware VDI just as they do, we have to allocate and provision and login to desktops just as they do. I had to demo it for 1000s and 1000s of users at VMworld in 2007 using early beta software just they did. I have to stay up day and night days and weeks before VMworld just as I am sure they did to ensure demos based on beta software work and I am sure when one of my demos blows up I will hear about it

RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

Steve McGovern — Wed, 21 May 2008 19:46:47 GMT

If the article was written in a spirit of fun all well and good, but it is symbolic of the FUD that Vmware seem to be propogating at the moment that really doesn't help customers choose, it is negative marketing that really doesn't reflect well on Vmware, and to be honest makes them look worried.

Why can't Vmware take a more synergistic approach? Appreciate the strengths of the core product, but not to the extent of being too blind to see the value of Citrix?

There is also an interesting dynamic that I see on a daily basis, which is customers think they want "VDI" because they have heard it might be good, when the reality is that the better solution is Citrix Presentation server, combined with discrete hosted virtual desktops, which may be physical PC's, Virtual PC's hosted on VMWare ESX server, or XenServer.

So have an open mind, and recommend the best solution, rather than peddling the same tired propoganda. If you are at I-Forum Edinburgh, I will buy you a beer and we can carry on our teccy discussion, if Shawn is there too happy days :@)

Steve

RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

Shawn Bass — Wed, 21 May 2008 16:02:53 GMT

Nice. Then we'll get an opportunity to discuss my reasons why I discourage people from wholesale VDI. And the WAN is a VERY real problem in the VDI space. And I disagree that it's niche.

Shawn

RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

wponder — Wed, 21 May 2008 14:21:42 GMT

I plan on attending Briforum. I love Briforum !!!!

RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

Dean F — Wed, 21 May 2008 00:05:52 GMT

So Warren... Are you going to BriForum? I look forward to your thoughts on it.

And how soon do you want to drive up to Seattle and give us a technical demo on VDI?

Dean

RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

wponder — Tue, 20 May 2008 23:28:18 GMT

It is all in good fun... Anyone who really knows me, knows I have a great deal of respect for the contributions Citrix has made to the SBC space and network computing over the years. I actually do know Xen Desktop intimately and have studied it up and down since the tech preview was released. I feel I have a strong hold on the strengths and weakness's as well as how much of it aligns with what they claim and what is reality.

Delivery across the WAN is always a fun discussion and debate... I know there are other solutions and expect to see even more in reasonable time, that deliver an over all better experience across a WAN. Although WAN delivery of desktops is a solution highly desired by some customers, and something a lot of people are working to solve. As percentage of the over all potential desktop landscape it's really small.

RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

Dean F. — Tue, 20 May 2008 23:12:13 GMT

It would be nice if the Virtual Desktop divisions at both Citrix and VMware paid the consulting partners - at least the Technical Consultants - a bit more attention.

We techs really have no ammo yet to temper the cannon fodder coming from our sales/marketing guys on how these technologies will be the end-all-be-all solutions (true techs never believe sales) . Especially since they've been to the sales/marketing demos but we've not really seen much in regards to technical demos except for what we download. A good hands-on demo with the geekiest tech possible is what we'd like to see.

Although, in all fairness, this could just be an isolated incident in my case. But my gut feeling is this is not isolated to just my company.

Dean

An excited tech is the best sales tool!

RE: Xen Desktop confirmed dead on arrival

Steve McG — Tue, 20 May 2008 22:31:20 GMT

Hmm so one dead live demonstration = a dead product? You do write as if you have a chip on your shoulder.

In a day or two, once you have had an opportunity to test the XenDesktop software yourself you will see that it does add value to any vmware vdi solution. Be objective, try it yourself, preferably over a WAN, then come back and give us your considered view.

BTW I dont work for Citrix, but I do work for a reseller that sells VMWare and Citrix and can see benefits in both products.
Steve